Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Putin

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_canpakes
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _canpakes »

ajax18 wrote:
So, is that trade-off worth it? And why?


Trading what? A man who promised but ultimately couldn't completely enforce the border versus a man who told us up front he had no intention of doing so?

The ‘trade’ is in reference to your claimed conservative values inasmuch as you’re willing to ditch all of them as long as some reality TV show huckster dog-whistles frequently enough during sound bites on nationalism and border issues, but does nothing otherwise about either, or any other truly conservative concern.

But if this is the direction that you want to run with your response, then can you take this to the next level by telling me why you’ll always vote for the ineffective non-conservative over anyone who has even or better odds to perform more effectively on both border issues and other actual conservative concerns?
_ajax18
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _ajax18 »

But if this is the direction that you want to run with your response, then can you take this to the next level by telling me why you’ll always vote for the ineffective non-conservative over anyone who has even or better odds to perform more effectively on both border issues and other actual conservative
[/quote]

Let's see,

Jeb Bush: Illegal immigration is an act of love.
Donald Trump: We're going to build a wall and make them pay for it.

Who sent the winning message in the Republican primary?

Are you saying Jeb would have enforced the border better than Trump? He sure had a poor way of telling the voters what he wanted to do if that was the case. (It wasn't)
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Chap wrote:Meanwhile, real people closely associated with Trump are on their way to prison. Real prison, with bars and high walls, for a long time.

Who will be next, do you think?


I had to come back to this. It just dawned on me we haven't heard much about Allen Weisselberg, Trump's CFO:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/swamp-ch ... ng-witness

Allen Weisselberg, the Man Who Knows Donald Trump’s Financial Secrets, Has Agreed to Become a Cooperating Witness


I don't know how to untangle the New Yorker article because there just SO MUCH to unpack. If you know how to read this article through the eyes of an investigator things are not looking good for the Trump family. At all. Like crap is imploding and it's starting to cascade pretty quickly now that his inner circle is cooperating with investigators. You really ought to do yourself a favor and read the article. It's incredibly fascinating.

Where does Cohen come into play? A new'ish allegation, corroborated by Cohen, is that Weisselberg conceived the scheme to repay Cohen from a Trump trust to pay off whores, and that he did so with the direct approval of Trump. And if you want to read about Cohen's reasoning for cooperation you absolutely must read this sentencing submission:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ssion.html

It's like a legal telenovella. It's beautiful theater. With citations. Absolutely fascinating to see into the current Presidency's world. Here's a teaser to try to generate interest:

Michael has similarly met voluntarily with representatives of the New York State Office of
the Attorney General (“NYAG”) concerning a state court action in which the NYAG has sued the
Donald J. Trump Foundation and certain individual defendants, including Donald J. Trump. He
also provided the NYAG with documents concerning a separate open inquiry. As above, Michael
intends to make himself available to the NYAG to provide any additional cooperation it may
request in these matters.


It's gold, Jerry!

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

And in case any one wants to see the State of NY's charging document:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/mi ... iminal-tax

Campaign Finance Violations

The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, as amended, Title 52, United States Code, Section 30101, et seq., (the “Election Act”), regulates the influence of money on politics. At all relevant times, the Election Act set certain limitations and prohibitions, among them: (a) individual contributions to any presidential candidate, including expenditures coordinated with a candidate or his political committee, were limited to $2,700 per election, and presidential candidates and their committees were prohibited from accepting contributions from individuals in excess of this limit; and (b) Corporations were prohibited from making contributions directly to presidential candidates, including expenditures coordinated with candidates or their committees, and candidates were prohibited from accepting corporate contributions.

On June 16, 2015, Individual-1 began his presidential campaign. While COHEN continued to work at the Company and did not have a formal title with the campaign, he had a campaign email address and, at various times, advised the campaign, including on matters of interest to the press, and made televised and media appearances on behalf of the campaign.

In August 2015, the Chairman and Chief Executive of Corporation-1, a media company that owns, among other things, a popular tabloid magazine (“Chairman-1” and “Magazine-1,” respectively”), in coordination with COHEN and one or more members of the campaign, offered to help deal with negative stories about Individual-1’s relationships with women by, among other things, assisting the campaign in identifying such stories so they could be purchased and their publication avoided. Chairman-1 agreed to keep COHEN apprised of any such negative stories.

Consistent with the agreement described above, Corporation-1 advised COHEN of negative stories during the course of the campaign, and COHEN, with the assistance of Corporation-1, was able to arrange for the purchase of two stories so as to suppress them and prevent them from influencing the election.

First, in June 2016, a model and actress (“Woman-1”) began attempting to sell her story of her alleged extramarital affair with Individual-1 that had taken place in 2006 and 2007, knowing the story would be of considerable value because of the election. Woman-1 retained an attorney (“Attorney-1”), who in turn contacted the editor-in-chief of Magazine-1 (“Editor-1”), and offered to sell Woman-1’s story to Magazine-1. Chairman-1 and Editor-1 informed COHEN of the story. At COHEN’s urging and subject to COHEN’s promise that Corporation-1 would be reimbursed, Editor-1 ultimately began negotiating for the purchase of the story.

On August 5, 2016, Corporation-1 entered into an agreement with Woman-1 to acquire her “limited life rights” to the story of her relationship with “any then-married man,” in exchange for $150,000 and a commitment to feature her on two magazine covers and publish more than 100 magazine articles authored by her. Despite the cover and article features to the agreement, its principal purpose, as understood by those involved, including COHEN, was to suppress Woman-1’s story so as to prevent it from influencing the election.

Between late August 2016 and September 2016, COHEN agreed with Chairman-1 to assign the rights to the non-disclosure portion of Corporation-1’s agreement with Woman-1 to COHEN for $125,000. COHEN incorporated a shell entity called “Resolution Consultants LLC” for use in the transaction. Both Chairman-1 and COHEN ultimately signed the agreement, and a consultant for Corporation-1, using his own shell entity, provided COHEN with an invoice for the payment of $125,000. However, in early October 2016, after the assignment agreement was signed but before COHEN had paid the $125,000, Chairman-1 contacted COHEN and told him, in substance, that the deal was off and that COHEN should tear up the assignment agreement.

Second, on October 8, 2016, an agent for an adult film actress (“Woman-2”) informed Editor-1 that Woman-2 was willing to make public statements and confirm on the record her alleged past affair with Individual-1. Chairman-1 and Editor-1 then contacted COHEN and put him in touch with Attorney-1, who was also representing Woman-2. Over the course of the next few days, COHEN negotiated a $130,000 agreement with Attorney-1 to himself purchase Woman-2’s silence, and received a signed confidential settlement agreement and a separate side letter agreement from Attorney-1.

COHEN did not immediately execute the agreement, nor did he pay Woman-2. On the evening of October 25, 2016, with no deal with Woman-2 finalized, Attorney-1 told Editor-1 that Woman-2 was close to completing a deal with another outlet to make her story public. Editor-1, in turn, texted COHEN that “[w]e have to coordinate something on the matter [Attorney-1 is] calling you about or it could look awfully bad for everyone.” Chairman-1 and Editor-1 then called COHEN through an encrypted telephone application. COHEN agreed to make the payment, and then called Attorney-1 to finalize the deal.

The next day, on October 26, 2016, COHEN emailed an incorporating service to obtain the corporate formation documents for another shell corporation, Essential Consultants LLC, which COHEN had incorporated a few days prior. Later that afternoon, COHEN drew down $131,000 from the fraudulently obtained HELOC and requested that it be deposited into a bank account COHEN had just opened in the name of Essential Consultants. The next morning, on October 27, 2016, COHEN went to Bank-3 and wired approximately $130,000 from Essential Consultants to Attorney-1. On the bank form to complete the wire, COHEN falsely indicated that the “purpose of wire being sent” was “retainer.” On November 1, 2016, COHEN received from Attorney-1 copies of the final, signed confidential settlement agreement and side letter agreement.

COHEN caused and made the payments described herein in order to influence the 2016 presidential election. In so doing, he coordinated with one or more members of the campaign, including through meetings and phone calls, about the fact, nature, and timing of the payments. As a result of the payments solicited and made by COHEN, neither Woman-1 nor Woman-2 spoke to the press prior to the election.

In January 2017, COHEN in seeking reimbursement for election-related expenses, presented executives of the Company with a copy of a bank statement from the Essential Consultants bank account, which reflected the $130,000 payment COHEN had made to the bank account of Attorney-1 in order to keep Woman-2 silent in advance of the election, plus a $35 wire fee, adding, in handwriting, an additional “$50,000.” The $50,000 represented a claimed payment for “tech services,” which in fact related to work COHEN had solicited from a technology company during and in connection with the campaign. COHEN added these amounts to a sum of $180,035. After receiving this document, executives of the Company “grossed up” for tax purposes COHEN’s requested reimbursement of $180,000 to $360,000, and then added a bonus of $60,000 so that COHEN would be paid $420,000 in total. Executives of the Company also determined that the $420,000 would be paid to COHEN in monthly amounts of $35,000 over the course of 12 months, and that COHEN should send invoices for these payments.

On February 14, 2017, COHEN sent an executive of the Company (“Executive-1”) the first of his monthly invoices, requesting “[p]ursuant to [a] retainer agreement, . . . payment for services rendered for the months of January and February, 2017.” The invoice listed $35,000 for each of those two months. Executive-1 forwarded the invoice to another executive of the Company (“Executive-2”) the same day by email, and it was approved. Executive-1 forwarded that email to another employee at the Company, stating: “Please pay from the Trust. Post to legal expenses. Put ‘retainer for the months of January and February 2017’ in the description.”

Throughout 2017, COHEN sent to one or more representatives of the Company monthly invoices, which stated, “Pursuant to the retainer agreement, kindly remit payment for services rendered for” the relevant month in 2017, and sought $35,000 per month. The Company accounted for these payments as legal expenses. In truth and in fact, there was no such retainer agreement, and the monthly invoices COHEN submitted were not in connection with any legal services he had provided in 2017.

During 2017, pursuant to the invoices described above, COHEN received monthly $35,000 reimbursement checks, totaling $420,000.


Are we going to get an admission, with undeniable proof, undeniable testimony, and undeniable criminal charges that Trump engage in malfeasance and broke the law?

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_canpakes
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _canpakes »

ajax18 wrote:
But if this is the direction that you want to run with your response, then can you take this to the next level by telling me why you’ll always vote for the ineffective non-conservative over anyone who has even or better odds to perform more effectively on both border issues and other actual conservative


Let's see,

Jeb Bush: Illegal immigration is an act of love.
Donald Trump: We're going to build a wall and make them pay for it.

Who sent the winning message in the Republican primary?

Are you saying Jeb would have enforced the border better than Trump? He sure had a poor way of telling the voters what he wanted to do if that was the case. (It wasn't)


His quote was regarding the motives of those who enter illegally: "Yes, they broke the law, but it's not a felony, it's an act of love. It's an act of commitment to your family." To the specific portion that you quoted, can you tell me what the motivations are of these folks otherwise?

Here, he speaks to possible policy approaches, instead of motivation (what you're referring to):

When parents & siblings are given immigration preference, their entry in turn creates an entitlement to other extended family members to gain preference as well--a phenomenon called "chain immigration."

In terms of cost/benefit analysis, extended family members typically do not produce the economic benefits that work-based immigrants do, and they impose far greater costs.

We propose limiting guaranteed admissions to spouses and minor children of US citizens. Reuniting married couples and their children is the essence of family reunification. By contrast, siblings and parents cause substantial chain immigration because their children, siblings, and parents then receive guaranteed admission preference as well.

We need to treat those who have settled in our country illegally with compassion and sensitivity, yet without sacrificing the rule of law that is vital to our national fabric. The wholesale amnesty granted in the 1980s promoted the first of those values while abandoning the second, with the all-too-predictable result that millions more illegal immigrants came into the country.

This time, we need to vindicate both core values On one hand, we should try to put ourselves in the shoes of people who have entered the country illegally: they often faced impossible economic circumstances in their native countries, with a bleak future for themselves and their families, yet had no realistic process of immigrating lawfully to this country. On the other hand, allowing people to immigrate illegally without consequence while millions of others wait to enter through lawful means in manifestly unfair.


Certainly you or anyone can disagree with some or all of this - and I'd invite you to identify any of it that you'd want to change or discuss. But at least there's something coherent from Jeb to examine.

In contrast, Trump merely stated that he'd "build a wall" - which actually says nothing about immigration policy itself or what to do with anyone entering illegally or already here. And then he made a ridiculous pronouncement that Mexico was going to pay for it.

I kept wondering to myself at the time why Trump would treat his potential voters as idiots by making that comment, given that he also had no practical immigration policy on top of that.

I don't think that you're getting much from Trump. Your relationship with him is very transactional, and you're paying a much heavier price than you suspect while realizing virtually none of your 'conservative values'.

As it relates to the thread topic - the man has lied to everyone and anyone, in order to serve only himself. He's doing the same to you.
_EAllusion
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _EAllusion »

Ajax - There's a famous quote from Lyndon Johnson that goes, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

You're like the living embodiment of it. The problem with Trump's real estate efforts in Russia or proposed participation in Russian corruption via buttering up Putin doesn't end, or really even begin, with Trump offering something nice to Putin. For instance, while Trump was advocating for ending sanctions on Russia, he was busy engaged in real estate negotiations with Russia that he was lying about. His plans almost certainly required financing currently under those sanctions. He was using political power he acquired through promising folks like you that he'll get those Mexicans to line his pockets against US national interests. This is both objectively bad and personally bad for you.
_ajax18
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _ajax18 »

To the specific portion that you quoted, can you tell me what the motivations are of these folks otherwise?


If I rob a bank and give the money to my wife and kids, would you consider this an act of love and commitment to my family on my part? Would you chastise the government officials who arrest me for breaking apart my family? Would you confiscate the stolen money from the bank accounts of my kids, who obtained that money through no fault of their own? Who cares whether my motivations were to help my family? It's still theft! What about the rights of the people I stole the money from!

Certainly you or anyone can disagree with some or all of this - and I'd invite you to identify any of it that you'd want to change or discuss. But at least there's something coherent from Jeb to examine.


I do feel it's unfair for me to call Jeb an open borders candidate. And while some of what he says is great in principle, the results of such a weak stance have been demonstrated over the past 50 years in a border that isn't really being enforced. It's hard for the American people not to conclude, our elected establishment Republicans could stop this if they wanted to do so. The reason the border isn't being enforced is because our politicians and the chamber of commerce financially elite members of the GOP do not want to stop it. It lines their pockets at the expense of working class American taxxpayers.

If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."


We're not looking down on anyone. We're just protecting our income and our tax dollars by enforcing the border. You make a fair point on lobbying to stop sanctions against Russia. But honestly I don't see how it hurts me if Russia takes over Ukraine. Russia isn't seeking global communism anymore. The Democratic party is a lot closer to imposing communism upon the American people than Russia will ever be.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_MeDotOrg
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _MeDotOrg »

ajax18 wrote:But honestly I don't see how it hurts me if Russia takes over Ukraine. Russia isn't seeking global communism anymore. The Democratic party is a lot closer to imposing communism upon the American people than Russia will ever be.

Remember when Hitler annexed the Ruhr and Sudetenland? nibble. nibble. Like it or not, nature abhors a vacuum. Trump abandoning the world stage is creating a low pressure area, and Russia will be happy to step in. Trump's foreign policy is the same as his business: He only sees the transactional now. And the short term expedient is to look the other way when Putin threatens Ukraine. But please don't think because Vladimir Putin is not a communist that he does not pose a threat to the interests of the United States. A victory over Ukraine would send a message to the Baltic states that the U.S. would not stand for them either. Do we care what happens in Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia?
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

MeDotOrg wrote: Do we care what happens in Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia?


Honestly? Meh. I mean, it'd be nice if they maintain their autonomy, but I wouldn't want the US to do anything beyond diplomacy unless a strong argument could be made that serves our interests in a real, tangible way. Blame my cynicism on Vietnam, the Iran-Contra Affair, CIA meddling in South America, Iraq II, and kind of sorta Afghanistan. And Africa. And the Philippines. And Cuba. Am I missing any other overt or covert “F” ups on our part? Best ease off a bit if history in the last 50 years has taught us anything.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_canpakes
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Re: Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Put

Post by _canpakes »

ajax18 wrote:If I rob a bank and give the money to my wife and kids, would you consider this an act of love and commitment to my family on my part? Would you chastise the government officials who arrest me for breaking apart my family? Would you confiscate the stolen money from the bank accounts of my kids, who obtained that money through no fault of their own? Who cares whether my motivations were to help my family? It's still theft! What about the rights of the people I stole the money from!

If you had taken that money because you felt, in your heart, that your children truly needed it to meet their most basic needs of food and shelter, then it can easily be argued that you did it out of love for your children. Saying as much doesn’t make the theft legal, though. Bush wasn’t attempting to say that an illegal immigrant was not violating the law in some way, just that the motivation behind it could be understandable and relatable. You’ve substituted that simple observation for his supposed policy, when the actual policy he articulated was quite different.

I do feel it's unfair for me to call Jeb an open borders candidate. And while some of what he says is great in principle, the results of such a weak stance have been demonstrated over the past 50 years in a border that isn't really being enforced. It's hard for the American people not to conclude, our elected establishment Republicans could stop this if they wanted to do so. The reason the border isn't being enforced is because our politicians and the chamber of commerce financially elite members of the GOP do not want to stop it. It lines their pockets at the expense of working class American taxpayers.

Yet you voted for and will support a man who exhibits the worst of that behavior, in that he has no strategy except to promise you a wall that he won’t really press for, wouldn’t be very effective even if completed and would add unnecessary billions to the Nation’s debt even if partially constructed. He promises this singular solution to the immigration dilemma because he believes his voters are simpletons motivated by emotion rather than truth or results. And he does this while continuing to rig the system in favor of his friends and their lobbyists, who will continue to benefit from the same set of policies that will be carried forward from past decades in place of any substantive overhaul.

That won’t change, because - as a Trump supporter - you’ve already told him that there’s no risk in his completely ignoring the problem aside from issuing occasional proclamations about wanting to build a wall. He knows that’s all that he has to do, because you’ll make no demands of him.
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