Cohen spills beans on Trump/Russia: Trump cancels on Putin

[_canpakes]

Ajax is getting immigration policy wins. He got to see Hispanic children be gratuitously tortured by white supremacists in the government. What better win is there than that for him? It's just that he's not getting the win that is the block-headed symbol of the whole thing.

I’m hoping that we don’t manage to further trash our national conscience and then push ourselves deeper into unnecessary debt just to satisfy the insecurities of a few folks who live their life from within a bubble of false propaganda, but I tend to be wildly unrealistic.

[_subgenius]

...

Are we going to get an admission, with undeniable proof, undeniable testimony, and undeniable criminal charges that Trump engage in malfeasance and broke the law?

- Doc

You mean with regards to Russian Collusion in the 2016 election? Isn't that what Mueller set out to explore?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Fortunately, I don't doubt that the State Department and the Department of Defense have people in them who are quite capable of explaining - perhaps even in terms comprehensible to Trump - what are the long-term potential consequences for the US (a nation whose prosperity depends crucially on a huge international network of trade and investment) of allowing its regions of influence, security and trust to be nibbled away little by little.

Those were the same arguments that were used to covertly undermine various countries' autonomy that people are now complaining about. We have a long and sordid history of countering Marxism, or business interests that were justified as our own interests, that resulted in a lot of suffering. EA makes a good point that we're obligated through NATO treaties to participate, so my personal reservations aside, it doesn't really matter what what anyone thinks because we're going to abide by NATO agreements.

Whatever the case may be, I feel like Ukraine has suffered a massive and humiliating injustice handed to them by Russia both recently and, well, historically. I'd hate to see us get sucked into a conventional (or maybe asymmetrical) war with Russia over the region. Perhaps our recent forays into Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria and Africa and other places has me wondering how much more debt we can take on to police the world.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

The thing that I think everyone in the foreign policy field gets, but doesn't sink into the public much is that the United States and NATO are vastly superior militarily to Russia and its allies. We are not geopolitical equals. They are badly outmatched by the US and Western Europe. We can defeat - obliterate - them in a conventional war very quickly. Russia knows this and sees themselves as encircled by NATO. That increases the risk of nuclear war because if Russia does something that triggers a NATO military response, it's very quickly going to either have to accept total surrender or use the threat of or actual nuclear strikes to stall defeat. That puts nuclear strike decisions in the hands of people who are going to be desperate and forced to make quick decisions regarding their defeat.

One of the things that makes Donald Trump so god damn dangerous is that while the US is on a hair-trigger to militarily respond to Russia, Trump keeps sending signals that the US will look the other way if it makes aggressive moves against its allies. It increases the odds that Russia might do something that will be a trip-wire for NATO military response. If that response comes, then there are a series of decisions people in charge will have to make where false steps could result in nuclear escalation.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

On a related note, the House is finally going to take a look at Trump's financial ties to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/23/adam-sc ... audis.html

Rep. Adam Schiff: House Democrats will investigate Trump's financial ties to Saudi Arabia as part of a 'deep dive' into the kingdom's dealings

Democrats will investigate President Donald Trump's financial ties to Saudi Arabia when majority control of the House changes hands in January, Rep. Adam Schiff says in a Washington Post interview.

"There are a whole set of potential financial conflicts of interest and emoluments problems that Congress will need to get to the bottom of," Schiff says.

I'm kicking around the idea of starting a new thread, because the Trump-Saud Family ties are pretty damned obscene, and goes back to Bannon's statement that Trump's Presidency is all about money laundering.

- Doc

[_canpakes]

“New York Democrat Jerry Nadler, the incoming chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said Sunday that new revelations from one of President Trump’s allies amount to proof that Russia had ‘leverage’ over Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign,” NBC’s Ben Kamisar writes.

“In an exclusive interview on ‘Meet the Press,’ Nadler said that former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen’s admissions last week related to his role in securing a Trump Tower in Moscow during the time of the GOP presidential primary raise the specter of a compromised presidential candidate, and now president, that should trouble the American people.

‘The fact that he was lying to the American people about doing business in Russia and the Kremlin knew he was lying gave the Kremlin a hold over him,’ Nadler said.”

[_subgenius]

I'm kicking around the idea of starting a new thread, because the Trump-Saud Family ties are pretty damned obscene, and goes back to Bannon's statement that Trump's Presidency is all about money laundering.

- Doc

Cool, just don't get distracted by the Podesta Group being hired to provide “public relations” and other services on behalf of the royal court of King Salman....or the $10m-$25m the Saud's have "donated" to Clinton Foundation, Clintno speeches, or even the Clinton "courtesy visit" at the 4 seasons....just focus on those condo sales.
Do we need to even mention Bush or Carter? or Turki Al Saud?

[_Chap]

Cool, just don't get distracted by <various distractions>

Right. Because, as Trump loves to tell people, he is the President and they aren't.

[_canpakes]

Cool, just don't get distracted by <various distractions>

Right. Because, as Trump loves to tell people, he is the President and they aren't.

Lol. Right. The guy talking about not getting distracted is reaching back into the Time Machine for the discredited Clinton Foundation conspiracy theory.

Next up from subs: some ranting about Podesta’s hacked risotto recipe, and something about Comet Ping Pong.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

It's bizarre. Guys like subgenius keep trying to use the distraction of whataboutism, but that tactic doesn't make any sense. If Clinton were President now I'd be demonstrating the same amount of skepticism toward her if she were as venal as Trump is.

Trump is the President. Not her. Not her husband. Not Sanders. Trump is. He's doing incredibly bad things that have been corroborated. I don't get why supposed patriots are cool with it. It's bananas.

- Doc