Dow is currently in a freefall

[_EAllusion]

On an aside, if the liberal wishlist of economic policies ever did happen, it would cause a significant dip in the stock market. Liberals want this. The stock market reflects corporate profits, and liberal policy is aimed at specifically at causing companies to share that wealth with its workforce more equitably. That's less money going to dividends. The liberal position on this is that ultimately this will drive economic growth because, simplifying, more capital in the hands of the lower and middle class creates more demand than capital in the hands of the wealthy few. But there is no doubt that in the short term, the prospect of such legislation passing will cause capital to flee the market. Liberalism will cause the DOW to sink, in other words.

I think about someone like Elizabeth Warren who is out there offering the intelligent version of liberal economic policy - something not necessarily true of her peers - and how the mere prospect of her election likely hurts markets. She's probably more vulnerable to it than politicians offering less serious proposals because markets probably will be smarter about recognizing that won't happen. If the press doesn't stop covering the market as bad market = bad economy = bad politicians, then she's going to get a lot of really bad press for her economic policy. And the press shows no signs of stopping this cookie cutter stupidity.

I don't think Warren has a good shot at winning the nom unless we fall into a serious recession. We might though, and that's where her "get the banks" bona fides turn into major strengths. Should she win the nom and end up as a front-runner, it's something to think about how she might be covered both right before an election and after should she win. She's bad for the stock market and people aren't necessarily going to connect that their desire for more equitable distribution of wealth necessarily entails a weaker stock market. People want less taxes and more government programs and they also want a soaring stock market and wealthy business owners to be less wealthy.

[_subgenius]

[_subgenius]

Everyone here knows what KG's intent is with this thread...

He called bach out on the second post of the thread. He's clearly trolling bach's penchant for starting threads in 2017 proclaiming the stock market proved conservatism true, the holy ghost bore witness of it, and Trump was serving liberal tears in buckets at fancy dinner parties because they couldn't deal with this reality.

In some way I agree with Cam that, even as trolling, it is a choice to play the game by bach's rules so when the market inevitably moves in positive directions the result will be bach thinking it's back to being his turn to crow. EA has the more level headed approach of pointing out the game itself isn't even wrong, it's so misguided. But I think that's lost on people like you and bach. And frankly, knowing Kevin is legitimately successful in his businesses trolling a poser like bach whose pretend resume isn't fooling anyone on the board adds a little humor to what otherwise is not that different from every other small-scaled personal duel that occurs on the board all the time.

KG's subsequent and most recent explanation paints with a broader brush, wider than Bach. So while he may have zeroed in on Bach initially, clearly that was indicative of his broader intent- which is to stereotype, demean, and snark large groups of people by the most simple characteristics....the irony is not lost.

[_EAllusion]

Subgenius citing rising stock market value as proof of Trump's "winning":

viewtopic.php?p=1045465#p1045465

[_Kevin Graham]

Subgenius citing rising stock market value as proof of Trump's "winning":

viewtopic.php?p=1045465#p1045465

This is worth quoting in full!

He's in office less than 100 days and you're ready to judge him as successful? I'd like to see a list of his accomplishments and successes.

ahh, here is a short list - hope it helps!


first accomplishment - kept Hillary Clinton from being elected (huuuge)
employment numbers rose for January and February
coal mines opened for 68,000 employees
Bulk of cabinet members have already been approved, despite Democrat posturing
withdrew from TPP
reinstated the Mexico City policy (against foreign abortion company funding)
Keystone pipeline
ended "catch/release" immigration policy
ended sanctuary city funding
ended the ridiculous transgender bathroom order (leaves it up to individual States)
ordered agencies that for every 1 new regulation proposed 2 regulations must be eliminated
Nominated Supreme Court judge
reduced debt by $100B
has undermined ACA
budget proposal
travel ban
Philadelphia Fed Index highest since 1984
small/med business confidence at 12 year high (Reuters)
stock market (Dow) has been consistently rising
Samsung is coming back to US with 500 jobs and $300m
Exxon moving jobs back
Fiat investing $1B
Hasbro bringing Play-Doh manuf back to US
Illegal immigration from Mexico down 40% in first month
disrupted that rather stagnant nature of "status quo" politics inside the beltway
has forced the vast majority of Liberals to actually research and learn about their own country, their own Constitution, their own history.

[_Kevin Graham]

han Bach. So while he may have zeroed in on Bach initially, clearly that was indicative of his broader intent- which is to stereotype, demean, and snark large groups of people by the most simple characteristics....the irony is not lost.

Absolutely, and you're among the morons in that list. The fact that there are "large groups of people" stupid enough to credit Trump for Stock Market performance doesn't really do your side any favors here.

[_canpakes]

KG's subsequent and most recent explanation paints with a broader brush, wider than Bach. So while he may have zeroed in on Bach initially, clearly that was indicative of his broader intent- which is to stereotype, demean, and snark large groups of people by the most simple characteristics....the irony is not lost.

And the greater irony is that folks leading the voices amongst the conservative crowd - like Hannity - down to the littlest lemming voices on the ground - like yourself - comment on this while playing exactly the same game as you are attempting to illustrate the other side does. You can just reverse the positions of the President names on your graphic. Here’s Hannity pulling it earlier this year in trying to explain a market dip:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fox-n ... 2018-02-06

‘Because the Obama economy was so weak all of these years we had just artificially cheap money.’

[_EAllusion]

I'm fairly certain that a notable part of the stock market heat up in 2017 was the result of anticipation of the looming tax reform package Republicans were going to pass. I don't consider it a good thing that wealthy investors reaped a financial windfall from a deficit financed tax cut, but that's why it is important to distinguish the ups and downs of the stock market with sound economic policy.

On the flip side, part of this recent downturn is almost certainly related to Trumpian trade policy.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

On an aside, if the liberal wishlist of economic policies ever did happen, it would cause a significant dip in the stock market. Liberals want this. The stock market reflects corporate profits, and liberal policy is aimed at specifically at causing companies to share that wealth with its workforce more equitably. That's less money going to dividends. The liberal position on this is that ultimately this will drive economic growth because, simplifying, more capital in the hands of the lower and middle class creates more demand than capital in the hands of the wealthy few. But there is no doubt that in the short term, the prospect of such legislation passing will cause capital to flee the market. Liberalism will cause the DOW to sink, in other words.

I think about someone like Elizabeth Warren who is out there offering the intelligent version of liberal economic policy - something not necessarily true of her peers - and how the mere prospect of her election likely hurts markets. She's probably more vulnerable to it than politicians offering less serious proposals because markets probably will be smarter about recognizing that won't happen. If the press doesn't stop covering the market as bad market = bad economy = bad politicians, then she's going to get a lot of really bad press for her economic policy. And the press shows no signs of stopping this cookie cutter stupidity.

I don't think Warren has a good shot at winning the nom unless we fall into a serious recession. We might though, and that's where her "get the banks" bona fides turn into major strengths. Should she win the nom and end up as a front-runner, it's something to think about how she might be covered both right before an election and after should she win. She's bad for the stock market and people aren't necessarily going to connect that their desire for more equitable distribution of wealth necessarily entails a weaker stock market. People want less taxes and more government programs and they also want a soaring stock market and wealthy business owners to be less wealthy.

I wish there was a way to help the "Conservatives" on this board and across the broader political spectrum internalize the importance of this position. What good is my investment portfolio, as meager as it is, to take and invest my current year's dollars if "Conservatives" are going to debt-fuel the economy and hasten the demise of my future dollars? In other words, I'm sacrificing a cool truck or a sweet ass Bose stereo system or another home or a night out to the movies NOW, this is my lifestyle taking a hit, hoping that in the future I can provide stability for myself and my family.

That takes a HUGE hit when "Conservatives" devalue the future purchasing power of the dollar because they want political gain now. It's an incredibly frustrating and stressful event. So, when subgenius asks us how Trump has impacted our lives for the worse NOW that's my answer. He stresses me the “F” out when he "F"s with the fed, "F"s up tariffs, and prints money. This is some 3rd World South American BS. I'd like my, say, $500k in 2038 to have, say, the purchasing power of $350k in 2018 dollars, not $150k, which will happen if "Conservatives" keep printing money.

- Doc

[_Kevin Graham]

After 25 months in office, Subs rundown needs major revision and updating.

Subgenius vs. Reality

employment numbers rose for January and February: 2017 was the worst year for job creation since 2010.

coal mines opened for 68,000 employees: Coal mining employment rose from 51,000 to just 53,000 after 24 months of Trump.

Bulk of cabinet members have already been approved, despite Democrat posturing: Most of them have resigned, been fired or indicted and/or imprisoned.

reinstated the Mexico City policy (against foreign abortion company funding:Which was only a win for the religiously retarded.

Keystone pipeline: dumped 300,000 gallons of oil on South Dakota farmland on Trump's watch

ended "catch/release" immigration policy: Trump's immigration policy has been a nightmare politically and legally, resulting in hundreds of children being torn from their parents and so far two have died in our custody on Trump's watch.

ended sanctuary city funding: He ended nothing because his action was deemed unconstitutional. No surprise.

ended the ridiculous transgender bathroom order (leaves it up to individual States): Not much of a win for anyone other than homophobes and isolated bigots from small towns like yours.

ordered agencies that for every 1 new regulation proposed 2 regulations must be eliminated: When you account for the fact that virtually all of them are exempt, the results are hilarious. "President Donald Trump’s groundbreaking executive order that requires agencies to eliminate two rules for every new rule they issue has yielded just three regulations that aren’t exempt, out of more than 200 rules issued so far."- Bloomberg

Nominated Supreme Court judge - Do you also give him a cookie for successfully going to the bathroom?

reduced debt by $100B - debt stands at $21.7 trillion and has skyrocketed since he has been pretending to be President.

has undermined ACA - much to the chagrin of 4 million Americans who no longer have health insurance because of him. But what about his promise to repeal and replace? Oooops.

budget proposal- Which exploded the deficit of course.

travel ban - another move that was deemed unconstitutional.

Philadelphia Fed Index highest since 1984 - It spiked at 35.1 his first month in office and has since plummeted to 9.4 where it currently stands.

small/med business confidence at 12 year high (Reuters) - it was at a 12 year high before Trump took office and it is currently at its lowest point since then.

stock market (Dow) has been consistently rising-

Samsung is coming back to US with 500 jobs and $300m - something that that was planned long before Trump entered office.

Exxon moving jobs back - something that that was planned long before Trump entered office.

Fiat investing $1B - something that that was planned long before Trump entered office.

Hasbro bringing Play-Doh manuf back to US - something that that was planned long before Trump entered office.

Illegal immigration from Mexico down 40% in first month - it had been dropping significantly since the turn of the century.

disrupted that rather stagnant nature of "status quo" politics inside the beltway- Yes, by giving us the most corrupt administration in history. Dozens of investigations, indictments, guilty pleas, etc.