No Trump defenders left ...?

[_canpakes]

If Trump “is not really a politician”, then all that you have left is that “he is a dirty ruthless businessman with a ego that is unmatched by few”.

And, after just complaining about the Clintons, tell my why, again, you decided to vote for “a dirty ruthless businessman with a ego that is unmatched by few”, and one that seems to surround himself with corrupted people who like to align themselves with Russians and their interests?

What were you hoping to achieve with your vote?

If you go back two years and read, I stated why I would/did vote for Trump. I also stated it was pretty sad that it came down to the choices we had...Trump was not even close to my first choice. I was clear I voted for Trump mainly in that he would elect conservative SCJ...which he did, so in that sense it was a good choice for me.

I actually prefer a slightly conservative court, but electing Trump to achieve it likely would not have been necessary. The Senate was - at the time - Republican-controlled, and destined to remain that way; a Clinton victory would not have enabled 'liberal' SC candidates to have succeeded. Indeed, we know this as even Merrick Garland was determined to be too liberal for the Senate to even be acknowledged when Obama selected him. Nothing in Garland's record indicated that he would not have been an entirely satisfactory judge. He just simply wasn't fringy enough for Republicans.

There's the underlying issue. If folks like Garland were not good enough for you, then what were you trying to achieve in hoping for more conservative candidates than him? It seems that most of the folks that want to go that route do so out of a belief that they need to preserve their particular religious beliefs over and above anyone else's beliefs or apparent rights while harboring an incorrect assumption that not being able to legally elevate and enforce their beliefs constitutes a 'persecution'. Thus, they seek a turn to markedly conservative SC judges to enforce those beliefs. I don't see this misuse of the SC as appropriate in general or serving the country in a beneficial way, especially given the punitive motivations guiding many fringe conservative voices. I'm not saying that this is where you stand, but maybe you could delve into your SC needs a bit more.

In any event, it hardly seemed necessary to elect Trump to preserve a center-right SC trend that would have continued regardless of a Clinton victory. And we would have maintained a government steered mainly by the interests of the center-Right while being staffed by reasonably competent folks.

If you were honest, you would acknowledge Trump has done some positive things...the economy is in a good cycle, the middle has settled down, terrorism is in a lull, people are getting back to work, and North Korea may be heading in the right direction....hopefully it will keep positive despite the turmoil.

I have absolutely no problem agreeing with the idea that Trump has presided over some positive developments or legislation. But with his first two years seeing absolute control by Republicans in Congress, it would be the expectation that something productive could result. Unfortunately, virtually nothing in your short list above is really attributable to Trump's suggested policies, alternately, you've misstated the trend and assigned praise for things that he absolutely hasn't achieved.

(Trump) ... is a business man who happens to be in the business of politics at this time in his life. He was/is also in the business of construction, development, TV, and other ventures.

He is not like a Biden, Feinstein, or Rubio and countless others in Washington who are sucking us dry in Club DC...(the swamp). If you guys do not understand this my guess is you have a goverment job.

I've never had a government job, but your statement would make more sense if you could demonstrate how the other guys were sucking you dry, but Trump has somehow changed that.

Last I checked, the man has been busily increasing our national debt in dramatic fashion and injecting volatility into investments via sloppily-imposed tariffs. The tax cuts that Republicans bragged about have made little impact on my own bottom line, and health care costs haven't been improved by whatever has happened since he took office. And anyone following the markets has probably seen their 401Ks being throttled as stocks become rattled from his childish tantrums and behavior.

And since you mentioned about those folks who 'don't understand' your point of view - I'll remind you that I work in a field closely related to yours. A few of our projects have seen an increase in the cost of some materials by as much as 600% (that's not a typo) due to Trump's haphazard application of tariffs. One project needed to be abandoned due to tariff-related cost increases. So the idea that Red Meat America is seeing only a universal benefit from Trumpian policy isn't entirely accurate.

Your question begs...what were you hoping to achieve with your vote...whether Hillary or other? Given our choices I would really like to here you opinion on that. Do you want Trump to succeed? In your mind what has he done that is good?

I didn't vote for Trump, and you can read my reasons why in posts back before the 2016 election. I didn't trust a 'businessman' who couldn't make a casino work even after getting a 400 million dollar head start, who had a well-known reputation for bilking partners out of their earnings, who ran sham 'universities' and sold substandard products under his 'brand' and who had taxpayers cover over 900 million dollars of his own shenanigans through his bankruptcy filings. Nothing he said or did inspired confidence that he could make this country better, inspire its citizens or generate international cooperation, given the tone and tenor of his campaign. And he had no real network or team suitable for national governance, which seemingly suggested that he would be forced to put into place folks who were more entrenched within the elitist and upper-tier wealth swamp that he faux-railed against. And that's exactly what he ended up doing, even though I honestly hoped that he had the will and the smarts to rise above that, seize his unique opportunity and make the sort of difference that he could have pushed had he honestly wanted to do right by the American People.

But his candidacy was never about that. It was only about him, and he has proven his inability to serve this Nation nearly every day that he has been in office. You should be thanking your lucky stars that anything at all that you favor has been achieved over the last two years, with that short list mainly brought about by Republicans ditching their spines, their balls and their integrity en masse in order to hang in long enough to get those precious conservative judges on the court.

[_Maksutov]

If you guys do not understand this my guess is you have a goverment job.

I had a federal government career, Markk, for 33 years and I'm proud of it.

Now tell me all about what I think and what I did. Go on.

[_Maksutov]

Chap,

It was a typo, I wrote Biden instead of Pence...so re-read and tell me where I am wrong with Pence.

It shows how much attention you're paying to the discussion. All the demands for information from others, then it's provided, then you come up with this kind of silly crap and you'll be deflecting and pivoting and dodging all over the place. Sad! but not unexpected.

[_Markk]

camcakes wrote...I've never had a government job, but your statement would make more sense if you could demonstrate how the other guys were sucking you dry, but Trump has somehow changed that.

Well, I don't know about you but every time I turn around I am being taxed for services I never get.

I have watched a two party system fight over policies, like immigration, as if they cared, and not do a thing about it, nor really intend to anything about it. Washington politicians just go back and forth for votes, in that votes mean party power.

Trump whether you will admit it of not gave confidence to the economy the moment he was elected. He gave confidence to the job market. The economy goes in cycles and can be effected by countless variables...and confidence is maybe the biggest thing the President can provide. When Trump says something stupid it effects the market and economy. Business creates "real"jobs, not so much policy, and business needs confidence their efforts will be rewarded, policy can translate to confidence. That is just the bottom line.

As far as Trump changing it, at least in the long term, I don't see it. He is fighting two spoiled rotten brats that have had their way for far to long. Maybe a Bernie next time around will further the break up, but I think that if that happens the business world will lack in the confidence for growth. We will see.

[_Markk]

If you guys do not understand this my guess is you have a goverment job.

I had a federal government career, Markk, for 33 years and I'm proud of it.

Now tell me all about what I think and what I did. Go on.

LOL...I could care less, but my guess is you did not have to sit down each year with your boss and review how much revenue you created for your existence, and nego.

We need goverment services, and we certainly need our armed forces, if that was your career thanks, but there needs to be a balance. When the balance shifts you get spending and deficit which is out of control thanks to those "sucking us dry." Can Trump fix it...I doubt it, the way our system has evolved we ( our children or grandchildren ) may have to hit bottom, and too me that is sad.

[_Maksutov]

LOL...I could care less

Exactly. You don't care, you don't bother to find out. How do you know what I did and did not negotiate? You don't. You're just relying on stereotypes. You have shown a persistent disinterest in facts. This seems to be consistent with Trump followers, an objectively observable and predictable phenomena and not a stereotype. You've demonstrated this abundantly in the thread. Thank you for your service to science.

Our country needs thoughtful, conscientious conservatives. Be one. Don't be a goddamn cult enabler.

[_Markk]

LOL...I could care less

Exactly. You don't care, you don't bother to find out. How do you know what I did and did not negotiate? You don't. You're just relying on stereotypes. You have shown a persistent disinterest in facts. This seems to be consistent with Trump followers, an objectively observable and predictable phenomena and not a stereotype. You've demonstrated this abundantly in the thread. Thank you for your service to science.

Our country needs thoughtful, conscientious conservatives. Be one. Don't be a goddamn cult enabler.

What percentage of goverment jobs produce a monetary profit for services rendered, or at a min. pay for their being? Please give me your guestament and we can see if my blanket statement holds water? And while your at it, how much more, percentage wise, does the average federal employee make when compared to the private workforce?

I think we can agree very few. That being the case, if these jobs and positions are tax payer funded, and the balance tips to exceeding practical established budgets then it simply gives us two options...raise taxes real time, or borrow money (which just increases the the tax burden in the end with added interest).

Again, when we exceed the budget balance it creates the deficit, and if we don't want a deficit, then we have to stop spending. Right? If I am wrong, please tell me how else we decrease the deficit without cutting spending or continually raising taxes?

It's funny you say I am in a cult when we see many here, and I assume you are guilty, of bagging on the LDS church for demanding a 10% of income, and yet you support a goverment that does the same many times over and demands more and more as they get deeper in debt.

[_Maksutov]

What percentage of goverment jobs produce a monetary profit for services rendered, or at a min. pay for their being? Please give me your guestament and we can see if my blanket statement holds water? And while your at it, how much more, percentage wise, does the average federal employee make when compared to the private workforce?

I think we can agree very few. That being the case, if these jobs and positions are tax payer funded, and the balance tips to exceeding practical established budgets then it simply gives us two options...raise taxes real time, or borrow money (which just increases the the tax burden in the end with added interest).

Again, when we exceed the budget balance it creates the deficit, and if we don't want a deficit, then we have to stop spending. Right? If I am wrong, please tell me how else we decrease the deficit without cutting spending or continually raising taxes?

It's funny you say I am in a cult when we see many here, and I assume you are guilty, of bagging on the LDS church for demanding a 10% of income, and yet you support a goverment that does the same many times over and demands more and more as they get deeper in debt.

Government is not supposed to produce a profit, Markk. Business and government are not the same thing. That's really, really, important. But also...

Let's see, you think that the numbers you're suggesting are meaningful? How would you develop meaningful numbers when you consider all of the different industries and professions and economic sectors that are represented? How crude can you get?

There is oversight provided for from Congress to handle all of the Constitutional things you've mentioned. Of course that only happens if Congress acts responsibly, which means bipartisanly. That hasn't happened.

The deficit is created as much by cutting taxes as by increasing spending. This is basic bookkeeping. You don't reduce your revenue by cutting taxes without consequences. And selectively shutting down parts of the government that your party considers less essential is bypassing the legislative process and ceding too much power to the executive. Again.

People give to the church or don't. I don't care if they want to flush their money that way or in Vegas, same diff.

But the government is something I value. Something that can respond to me if I'm willing to work with it. It's something that a lot of good Americans have died protecting. It has corruption and mismanagement and problems like any large organization. It needs cleaning up. And we have provisions for that.

If you don't like our government, use the Constitution to change it. If you don't like our Constitution, go find a country which has a better one. Seriously. Those are your realistic options.

I don't admire antigovernment conservatives. Most of them are, frankly, hypocrites. And blathering on about some libertarian society that's about as real as Lemuria. Please.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is a great copypasta to explain their mindset, Mak:

I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.

“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”

“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”

“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”

The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”

“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”

“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”

He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”

“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”

I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.

“Home Depot™️ Presents the Police!®️” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.

“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.

“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”

It didn’t seem like they did.

“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”

Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.

I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.

“Subway™️ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®️” I yelled.

Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.

“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.

I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”

He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.

“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”

“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™️ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs®️ on the guy.

“Because I was afraid.”

“Afraid?”

“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”

I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.

“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”

He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.

- Doc

[_Maksutov]

Brilliant, Doc. I love it.

Many people out there don't realize how much government and business interface. My career series, GS-1102, had to do with contract award and management. Why was I needed? Because the government is deeply reliant, increasingly so, on private enterprise. There is constant push and pull and revolving doors between government and industry. They need each other. They are interdependent. If you have sensible, principled people involved you can work together to achieve great things, to mutual benefit. Or you can adopt an adversarial position, fight constantly and fail to produce, no matter how you blame and excuse.

My career and my craft was to bring people together in mutual agreements and to facilitate them working together to achieve the agreed upon performance that was required. I couldn't afford to have tantrums, to issue ultimatums, to reduce all situations to power plays, binary absolutes. That isn't real world. That's a weak, impotent person's dream of victory. When you have to have continuing relationships, you have to be much more mature than that. As frustrating as diplomacy is, better the jaw jaw than the war war, in domestic as well as international disputes. I was a cog in the war machine and then in the healing machine. Both were needed. Both have been deeply misunderstood and politicized in abusive and exploitive ways.