Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCain

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_subgenius
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _subgenius »

MeDotOrg wrote:When Trump made the comment "I like people who weren't captured", I thought that was the end of his campaign. I thought that one simple statement reflected the totality of Donald Trump's world, a world where one man's suffering and heroism does not fit his personal agenda, and therefore he dismissed it.

...(snip)...

George H Bush expressed a similar sentiment when people called him a war hero, noting that being shot down and rescued wasn't really "heroic"...does your condemnation extend to him as well? please clarify.
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_Chap
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _Chap »

subgenius wrote:
MeDotOrg wrote:When Trump made the comment "I like people who weren't captured", I thought that was the end of his campaign. I thought that one simple statement reflected the totality of Donald Trump's world, a world where one man's suffering and heroism does not fit his personal agenda, and therefore he dismissed it.

...(snip)...

George H Bush expressed a similar sentiment when people called him a war hero, noting that being shot down and rescued wasn't really "heroic"...does your condemnation extend to him as well? please clarify.


Modesty by a man who has been in combat is not quite the same thing as a coward with fake bone spurs insulting a man who risked his life for his country and in consequence endured suffering in captivity that you cannot imagine.

I hope that clarifies matters for you?
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _Jersey Girl »

MeDotOrg wrote: If any of his supporters think otherwise, I invited you to look all of the comments he has made about John McCain, and ask yourselves why he is incapable of understanding his bravery and heroism, and acknowledging his suffering.


While completely ignoring the suffering of his grieving family.
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

subgenius wrote:
MeDotOrg wrote:When Trump made the comment "I like people who weren't captured", I thought that was the end of his campaign. I thought that one simple statement reflected the totality of Donald Trump's world, a world where one man's suffering and heroism does not fit his personal agenda, and therefore he dismissed it.

...(snip)...

George H Bush expressed a similar sentiment when people called him a war hero, noting that being shot down and rescued wasn't really "heroic"...does your condemnation extend to him as well? please clarify.


Boy, you don't really know the whole story of Bush's SERE experience do you? You should take the time to familiarize yourself with it.

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_Gunnar
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _Gunnar »

subgenius wrote:
MeDotOrg wrote:When Trump made the comment "I like people who weren't captured", I thought that was the end of his campaign. I thought that one simple statement reflected the totality of Donald Trump's world, a world where one man's suffering and heroism does not fit his personal agenda, and therefore he dismissed it.

...(snip)...

George H Bush expressed a similar sentiment when people called him a war hero, noting that being shot down and rescued wasn't really "heroic"...does your condemnation extend to him as well? please clarify.

Wow! The cluelessness and audacity of that remark is positively breathtaking! I hope that Chap's excellent response to that remark:
Modesty by a man who has been in combat is not quite the same thing as a coward with fake bone spurs insulting a man who risked his life for his country and in consequence endured suffering in captivity that you cannot imagine.

I hope that clarifies matters for you?

clarified that for you. Boy do you have egg on your face! Are you even the slightest bit embarrassed or apologetic about having made such an incredible fool of yourself! You certainly should be!

What turned you into such a brainwashed and mindless Trump sycophant?
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_honorentheos
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _honorentheos »

subgenius wrote:please clarify.

It's common to hear Medal of Honor recipients state they aren't heroes any more than the others around them were, that they were just doing their job the same as everyone else, or even that the real heroes didn't make it back.

GHB's comments are coming from someone who made it back while others didn't including his co-pilot while serving a dangerous mission that he carried out while having reason to abort, and spent a month on a rescue sub after being picked up rescuing other downed airmen.

Trump had his daddy buy a doctor's note to avoid serving.

Consider it clarified.
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Don't forget he was almost eaten by cannibals.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_MeDotOrg
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _MeDotOrg »

subgenius wrote:
MeDotOrg wrote:When Trump made the comment "I like people who weren't captured", I thought that was the end of his campaign. I thought that one simple statement reflected the totality of Donald Trump's world, a world where one man's suffering and heroism does not fit his personal agenda, and therefore he dismissed it.

...(snip)...

George H Bush expressed a similar sentiment when people called him a war hero, noting that being shot down and rescued wasn't really "heroic"...does your condemnation extend to him as well? please clarify.

George Bush NEVER said he liked men that were not captured. His own statement refers to the fact that while he was shot down he was rescued. He spent about 4 hours in a life raft while American fighters circled overhead, and was rescued by a submarine. He did not spend 5 1/2 years as a POW. If you asked George Bush why he was NOT captured, I would imagine he would tell you it was because he was shot down over the ocean and not enemy territory, nor did he have 5 broken bones and was not knocked unconscious when he ejected. I would also point out that George Bush was describing his own actions, and he was a man of far too much humility and far too little hubris to describe his own actions as heroic. George Bush had taken the measure of his own courage in World War II, and found that it was not lacking. He was never threatened by John McCain's heroism. Here was H.W.'s statement about the death of John McCain:

George H.W. Bush wrote:John McCain was a patriot of the highest order, a public servant of the rarest courage. Few sacrificed more for, or contributed more to, the welfare of his fellow citizens – and indeed freedom loving peoples around the world. Another American maverick and warrior, General George Patton, once observed: ‘We should thank God that men such as these have lived'. To that I can only add my gratitude to John’s wife Cindy, his wonderful family, and the people of Arizona who permitted this great and good man to serve with such distinction in the world’s greatest deliberative body.”

As to the 5 1/2 years as a POW that McCain served, consider this:

Business Insider wrote:Less than a year into McCain's imprisonment, his father was named commander of US forces in the Pacific, and the North Vietnamese saw an opportunity for leverage by offering the younger McCain's release — what would have been both a propaganda victory and a way to demoralize other American POWs.

But McCain refused, sticking to the POW code of conduct that says troops must accept release in the order in which they are captured.

"I knew that every prisoner the Vietnamese tried to break, those who had arrived before me and those who would come after me, would be taunted with the story of how an admiral's son had gone home early, a lucky beneficiary of America's class-conscious society," McCain later recalled.


So I would ask you to speak to that, a situation that George H.W. Bush never had to face. Bush was the only person to survive the bombing run that took his plane but not his life. His crew member's parachute did not open. Those who were captured by the Japanese were tortured. For George Bush, the seemingly capricious chain of events that led to his own survival in the face of so much death made him ask the question why it was him.

So if you think he was in agreement with Donald Trump's observation that he likes guys that don't get captured, you don't understand the chasm that separates the compassion, humanity and integrity of George H.W. Bush from the narcissistic ravings of our petty President.
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_canpakes
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _canpakes »

MeDotOrg wrote:
subgenius wrote:George H Bush expressed a similar sentiment when people called him a war hero, noting that being shot down and rescued wasn't really "heroic"...does your condemnation extend to him as well? please clarify.

George Bush NEVER said he liked men that were not captured. His own statement refers to the fact that while he was shot down he was rescued. He spent about 4 hours in a life raft while American fighters circled overhead, and was rescued by a submarine. He did not spend 5 1/2 years as a POW. If you asked George Bush why he was NOT captured, I would imagine he would tell you it was because he was shot down over the ocean and not enemy territory, nor did he have 5 broken bones and was not knocked unconscious when he ejected. I would also point out that George Bush was describing his own actions, and he was a man of far too much humility and far too little hubris to describe his own actions as heroic. George Bush had taken the measure of his own courage in World War II, and found that it was not lacking. He was never threatened by John McCain's heroism.


I can't believe that this needs to be explained to subs, even if he is subs.

I'm pretty sure that more than a few Trump fanboys just end up huffing paint fumes at the end of each day's interactions with normal folks, in an attempt to kill off enough brain cells to enable themselves to believe their own trumpy BS.
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Re: Trump's Outrageous, Demonstrably False Claims About McCa

Post by _Gunnar »

Many of the posts by subby, Ajax and Bach couldn't do more to expose the inanity and lack of credibility of hard core Republican conservatives and their motivations even if that were their actual intent. This sometimes makes me wonder if that were their actual intent.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

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