Indoctrination-is it really so deep?

[_Res Ipsa]

The accusation of misdirection is itself misdirection.

[_jfro18]

And there you go. Another misdirect. I'll leave it to others to go back, look carefully, and determine whether or not that's exactly what you did.

Regards,
MG

It's really pretty simple - do you take Joseph Smith at his word (and at face value) or do you try to reinterpret what you think he meant 180 years later in order to make it work knowing that Joseph at face value has been proven a lie?

Joseph Smith made it absolutely clear it was going to happen through natural disasters and not war, and he was crystal clear that was from God.

It's even more damning because Joseph made the "civil war prophecy" just before this, so he could've tied the two together but chose not to. Even then he'd still have the problem of everyone fleeing Missouri and never going back, but at least FAIR wouldn't be completely lying about the context of the letter.

[_mentalgymnast]

Here we go:

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such [p. 17] a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the hystory of our nation pestalence hail famine and earthquake will sweep the wicked off this generation from off the face of this Land to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country— The people of the Lord, those who have complied with the requsitions of the new covenant have already commenced gathering togethe[r] to Zion which is in the State of Missouri.

compared to:

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such [p. 17] a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the hystory of our nation pestalence hail famine and earthquake will sweep the wicked off this generation from off the face of this Land to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country— The people of the Lord, those who have complied with the requsitions of the new covenant have already commenced gathering togethe[r] to Zion which is in the State of Missouri.

Who is gathering to Zion?

The people of the Lord, those who have complied with the requsitions of the new covenant have already commenced gathering togethe[r]

Who is this referring to?

Is it referring to

...the lost tribes of Israel from the north country.

I don't think so. But I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I think it's the members of the church gathering to Zion.

The way in which you used caps and lower case seem to point...literally... to the lost tribes as being those who are gathering to Zion.

Why did grindael leave the portion I shaded blue in lower caps while everything around it is in upper caps?

Regards,
MG

[_Res Ipsa]

He didn’t and it’s not.

[_jfro18]

Why did grindael leave the portion I shaded blue in lower caps while everything around it is in upper caps?

Regards,
MG

No matter how you color words or what font they are in, the words are the same.

The problem is that if you take Joseph's words at face value, they have been proven false in every way here... and since he claims it is under the authority of Jesus, it it revelation that failed which can't happen for a true prophet.

Instead of arguing over what color/font words are, just take them at face value because at the end of the day they're going to be wrong no matter what size, shade, color, or font they are presented in.

[Guest]

grindael, when you do this sort of thing it's called a misdirect, a magician's trick. Done in order to move another's attention/perception from one point/place to another. Magicians do this all the time.

No. The magician will use slight of hand and use distraction and tricks in order to produce the illusion to fool his audience.

grindael is simply quoting Joseph Smith in different fonts. It's not an illusion and it's certainly not a sleight of hand. Everything is contained in the paragraph for your puny little mind to attempt to comprehend, mentalgymnast. All you have to do is read the paragraph in its entirety. Nobody is trying to fool you. Nobody is using slight of hand. Nobody is performing tricks.

[_mentalgymnast]

He didn’t and it’s not.

He didn't what? It's not what?

It's readily apparent, to me, that he did and it is.

Are you misdirecting?

If indeed there was a calculated purpose to leave the portion that I highlighted in blue in lower case while the surrounding text was in upper case, I think that should be made known. Re-purposing his cut and paste to apparently show/demonstrate that the lost ten tribes were to gather together in Zion in the state of Missouri changes the meaning of the text dramatically.

The way/method in which a selected portion of text that has been cut and pasted from source material is 'pasted' makes a difference. And I've already described why earlier.

There was an intentional misdirect in my opinion. It's not like this isn't done by folks, including magicians, in order to steer their audience in a certain direction of observation/perception.

Regards,
MG

[_Fence Sitter]

50-100 years from now, FairCoJCoLDS will be using the same argument to defend Christofferson's claim to the 2nd coming being near as they are now using to defend Joseph Smith.

It really does not matter what any church leader claims at any one time, because it can always be reinterpreted to mean something else God really meant by later generations.

Look at the billions and billions of dollars the church has. Of course this means the church is well situated to help bring in the 2nd coming. On the other hand if it was broke, it would just be another sign of how the 2nd coming is just around the corner.

How do we know this is God's church? Because it looks exactly like it does, of course.

#circularreasoning

[_mentalgymnast]

Instead of arguing over what color/font words are, just take them at face value because at the end of the day they're going to be wrong no matter what size, shade, color, or font they are presented in.

That's not true in this instance. Using the technique of misdirection grindael may have had the intent of showing that the lost ten tribes were on their way to Zion in the state of Missouri. Maybe that wasn't his intent, but then I would ask why the intentional change in font size so as to connect the large font at the front end with the large font at the back end? with small font in between to be glossed over.

Regards,
MG

[_Shulem]

not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the hystory of our nation pestalence hail famine and earthquake will sweep the wicked off this generation

Look, Mr. Smith, you're talking crazy. This isn't going to happen. There won't be any pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquakes sweeping the Americans off the map. You're just going around trying to scare people. I can assure you that 200 years from now this silly prophecy you just uttered will not be fulfilled. Neither will it ever be. You're making stuff up, Mr. Smith.

Would you like a little tar and some feathers you lying bastard?