Obama on Russia: Who can?????t Forget!

[_Markk]

Hor,

I don't view our politics our politicians as good and evil, that is just a misnomer. There is a difference between good and evil, and right and wrong. Morality is tough for me, and have to swallow my hypocrisy given our choices. But that said, there will never be a perfect party or leader, and I vote for what ever group, or person, that holds closest to my views and standards as a whole, not just a specific person. I am a independent, as I grow older I am more conservative. I have voted for democrats, Independents, and Republicans.

There are, using the Biblical term, "principalities and powers" that are evil...which may be what you are trying to describe. For me that is in all parties, and what i struggle with having to support politicians who's policies I disagree with.

I see our country more and more polarized. I see a lot of haters, on both sides, and can understand your view...but please do not put me in that group. I "hate" very few people, and view even fewer as evil.

If I had to pick as a example a leader that was evil, it would be the Stalin's, Hitler's, and Mau's.

[_honorentheos]

Fair enough, Markk. So what about the discussion then? How is Trump not going to the FBI with what Russia was attempting to do not a major concern for you? And how is it that the thread has already discussed much about the Obama administration's knowledge and responses to Russia election tampering that you apparently didn't read or acknowledge but instead asked, "The real Question to this OP, is whether or not Obama had a clue of what was happening under his watch, in regards to Russia and our election."

If that doesn't come out of an inherent distrust or dislike of Obama rather than out of an understanding of the facts I don't know how to explain it. So enlighten me.

[_canpakes]

I see our country more and more polarized. I see a lot of haters, on both sides, and can understand your view...but please do not put me in that group. I "hate" very few people, and view even fewer as evil.

This approach of defining one of the parties as ‘evil’ does seem to be more a feature of the right wing, though. I’ve passed many billboards over the years that inject the issue of “what’s right by God” into the choice between parties, and more than a handful of billboards in Atlantic/Gulf Coast states that outright called Obama an/the ‘Antichrist’.

There is plenty of anti-Trump sentiment out there, but it’s not framed by the resistance as an epic battle against an unredeemable evil as defined by a particular God, and without room for compromise.

[_Maksutov]

I see our country more and more polarized. I see a lot of haters, on both sides, and can understand your view...but please do not put me in that group. I "hate" very few people, and view even fewer as evil.

This approach of defining one of the parties as ‘evil’ does seem to be more a feature of the right wing, though. I’ve passed many billboards over the years that inject the issue of “what’s right by God” into the choice between parties, and more than a handful of billboards in Atlantic/Gulf Coast states that outright called Obama an/the ‘Antichrist’.

There is plenty of anti-Trump sentiment out there, but it’s not framed by the resistance as an epic battle against an unredeemable evil as defined by a particular God, and without room for compromise.

The John Birchers and their symps referred to the GOP as the "stupid party" and the Democrats as the "evil party". You'll see this a lot among the militia-loving crowd too.

[_Markk]

Fair enough, Markk. So what about the discussion then? How is Trump not going to the FBI with what Russia was attempting to do not a major concern for you? And how is it that the thread has already discussed much about the Obama administration's knowledge and responses to Russia election tampering that you apparently didn't read or acknowledge but instead asked, "The real Question to this OP, is whether or not Obama had a clue of what was happening under his watch, in regards to Russia and our election."

If that doesn't come out of an inherent distrust or dislike of Obama rather than out of an understanding of the facts I don't know how to explain it. So enlighten me.

Did you read the OP? Did you read the title?

O’well, I am reading through the report, it is long. Give me a cf on your point and I promise to respond.

The real question of the OP is Obama’s ignorance of any Russian threat (Obama on Russia, who can forget). If you want to take it to Trump, fine, give me the CF, I will review it and respond...Fair?

[_Markk]

Fair enough, Markk. So what about the discussion then? How is Trump not going to the FBI with what Russia was attempting to do not a major concern for you? And how is it that the thread has already discussed much about the Obama administration's knowledge and responses to Russia election tampering that you apparently didn't read or acknowledge but instead asked, "The real Question to this OP, is whether or not Obama had a clue of what was happening under his watch, in regards to Russia and our election."

If that doesn't come out of an inherent distrust or dislike of Obama rather than out of an understanding of the facts I don't know how to explain it. So enlighten me.

Did you read the OP? Did you read the title?

O’well, I am reading through the report, it is long. Give me a cf on your point and I promise to respond.

The real question of the OP is Obama’s ignorance of any Russian threat (Obama on Russia, who can forget). If you want to take it to Trump, fine, give me the CF, I will review it and respond...Fair?

[_Brackite]

Did you read the OP? Did you read the title?

The OP was short and I didn't click on the OP's YouTube link. But here is part of this CNN opinion article:

Mueller's report looks bad for Obama

(CNN) — The partisan warfare over the Mueller report will rage, but one thing cannot be denied: Former President Barack Obama looks just plain bad. On his watch, the Russians meddled in our democracy while his administration did nothing about it.


The Mueller report flatly states that Russia began interfering in American democracy in 2014. Over the next couple of years, the effort blossomed into a robust attempt to interfere in our 2016 presidential election. The Obama administration knew this was going on and yet did nothing. In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians, according to an account from Michael Isikoff and David Corn in their book "Russian Roulette: The Inside Story of Putin's War on America and the Election of Donald Trump".

Why did Obama go soft on Russia? My opinion is that it was because he was singularly focused on the nuclear deal with Iran. Obama wanted Putin in the deal, and to stand up to him on election interference would have, in Obama's estimation, upset that negotiation. This turned out to be a disastrous policy decision.

Obama's supporters claim he did stand up to Russia by deploying sanctions after the election to punish them for their actions. But, Obama, according to the Washington Post, "approved a modest package... with economic sanctions so narrowly targeted that even those who helped design them describe their impact as largely symbolic." In other words, a toothless response to a serious incursion.

[_Markk]

The link in the OP is 34 seconds long, and from Obama's own mouth, for me is speaks more so than an opinion piece.

It's time to move on, there is so much hate right now I just don't see it happening.

[_Some Schmo]

If one watches the video, one might note that Obama never said Russia wasn't a threat. He seemed to think terrorism was a bigger one.

And by the way, that was in 2012. Russia was attempting to intervene in our elections in 2015-16.

Man, it's nice to watch Obama... a President who can actually say a coherent sentence, and doesn't exude asshole. I miss that.

[_honorentheos]

The real question of the OP is Obama’s ignorance of any Russian threat (Obama on Russia, who can forget). If you want to take it to Trump, fine, give me the CF, I will review it and respond...Fair?

viewtopic.php?p=1177786#p1177786

We were having a conversation about the Obama administration's handling of Russia way back on page 1 of this two-page thread.