The Redacted Mueller Report

[_ajax18]

God has to show up and talk to me, or he's just like Santa Claus. If an omniscient god exists, it already knows this about me and doesn't give a ____ whether I believe in it or not; otherwise, it would have already made an appearance.

The entire point of this life is to learn to live by faith. God showing up and speaking to you would defeat the purpose. And yeah, I've had an epiphany. You might see me a little differently as a believer.

[_Some Schmo]

The entire point of this life is to learn to live by faith. God showing up and speaking to you would defeat the purpose.

Says who?

I would say this demonstrates the crux of the difference between us. You say things like this because you don't feel the need to back up what you say. You can assert anything you want and write it off as "faith." You could have said, "I just felt a great disturbance in the Force" and it would have the exact same impact on me.

I couldn't do that because I like living in the real world and feel the need to have evidence on my side.

And yeah, I've had an epiphany. You might see me a little differently as a believer.

Not by much. You've always been a religious zealot from my perspective. All that may have changed are the details.

[_canpakes]

The entire point of this life is to learn to live by faith. God showing up and speaking to you would defeat the purpose. And yeah, I've had an epiphany. You might see me a little differently as a believer.

If you believe in a God, then you acknowledge that the same God designed you to live by observation and fact. Faith does not keep one alive; adherence to and acting upon facts which are corroborated and verified between multiple individuals is what keeps you from starving, stupidly killing yourself, or getting killed by others. You know this to be completely true because you claim this approach in determining your own nationalist point of view, programmed into your neural landscape via rote repitition or actual observations. Even if the programming is of objectively false information, you rely on a physical process to convince yourself of its supposed reality.

When you think about it (no pun intended), nothing about you is designed to “live by faith”. Not even your faith. : )

[_MeDotOrg]

I am absolutely gobsmacked by SPG/s admission, "The written approval of God himself wouldn't convince me that Mueller did this in good faith." When it gets to the point that God himself could not convince one that one might be mistaken, that is unequivocal proof that one has given up even the pretense of being rational. I suspect that even if God himself appeared to SPG in person and told him that Trump was corrupt and deserved to be removed from office, he would merely accuse God of being a liar or fool or both (or, at best, a figment of his imagination, which would most probably be true, what ever he thought God told him). He obviously reveres and worships Trump more than he does God. Any reasonable person should find this very highly disturbing and dangerous!

One of my favorite lines at the beginning of a work of fiction: But it's the truth even if it never happened. It invites you to abandon your sense of disbelief. It sets up the story as a myth.

Again, I turn to Res Ipsa's signature line:

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.

In the post-truth information age, people stop relying on facts and start relying on narratives. Those narratives become myths. You can't question a myth because if feels true. Knowledge is no longer your head, it's in your gut.

[_Gunnar]

One of my favorite lines at the beginning of a work of fiction: But it's the truth even if it never happened. It invites you to abandon your sense of disbelief. It sets up the story as a myth.

Again, I turn to Res Ipsa's signature line:

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.

In the post-truth information age, people stop relying on facts and start relying on narratives. Those narratives become myths. You can't question a myth because if feels true. Knowledge is no longer your head, it's in your gut.

Yes, that is a great signature line, and is quite compatible with my own signature lines below.

[_ajax18]

I couldn't do that because I like living in the real world and feel the need to have evidence on my side.

I'd like to have evidence for everything as well but you don't always get that luxury. We're here on earth to learn to walk by faith not by sight. You can't have complete evidence for every decision you make in life and if you did you would paralyze yourself into inaction just trying to process it all. The truth is that we have no choice but to rely on faith some times.

And I don't expect you to believe that voting Republican is ultimately in your best interest as well as mine, even though I believe this. It's not that important. I do think you should reconsider the idea that the gospel of Jesus Christ is in the eternal best interest of every human being including yourself. It's not a mental illness. It's the purpose of human life and our path to lasting happiness.

[_ajax18]

Knowledge is no longer your head, it's in your gut.

I've found my gut to be more reliable than a lot of the twisted statistics we throw at each other on this board. Without a gut feeling, you'd never question any of these statistics. There are lies, damned lies and above all statistics.

In my own personal faith crisis, I've learned to step back from conclusions that the church is just a money making enterprise and ask simple questions, "Is God good? Is He fair? Is He just?" I reject data that would lead to me think not as lies or half truths. And it turns out more often than not, they are.

[_Jersey Girl]

Knowledge is no longer your head, it's in your gut.

I've found my gut to be more reliable than a lot of the twisted statistics we throw at each other on this board. Without a gut feeling, you'd never question any of these statistics. There are lies, damned lies and above all statistics.

In my own personal faith crisis, I've learned to step back from conclusions that the church is just a money making enterprise and ask simple questions, "Is God good? Is He fair? Is He just?" I reject data that would lead to me think not as lies or half truths. And it turns out more often than not, they are.

Just as a matter of interest, I believe that God can be accessed and can access us regardless of what church organization we belong to or with no church affiliation at all. I believe that we are wired to accept transmissions from our Creator and respond to them. Whether one holds those beliefs or not, they should not be thrown at those who do as a form of insult for that very type of thinking is used to forward the very kinds of bigotry that most of us are opposed to.

Or at least we say we are opposed to them. Whether or not we live that claim in practice is another matter altogether and more often than not, they are practiced with a full compliment of hypocrisy that would betray our claims and establish ourselves as practicing cafeteria bigotry.

That is to say, we practice bigotry when it suits us.

[_Some Schmo]

I'd like to have evidence for everything as well but you don't always get that luxury. We're here on earth to learn to walk by faith not by sight.

There you go again, pretending to know the grand purpose of the universe.

You can't have complete evidence for every decision you make in life and if you did you would paralyze yourself into inaction just trying to process it all. The truth is that we have no choice but to rely on faith some times.

Sure. But there's a huge difference between that and jumping to god conclusions.

And I don't expect you to believe that voting Republican is ultimately in your best interest as well as mine, even though I believe this. It's not that important.

It's incredible how much inaccuracy you packed into these few words.

I do think you should reconsider the idea that the gospel of Jesus Christ is in the eternal best interest of every human being including yourself. It's not a mental illness. It's the purpose of human life and our path to lasting happiness.

I have little doubt that I've seriously considered this idea far more times than you have. In fact, the very nature of your belief precludes serious consideration.

But hey man (and I mean this seriously), if it makes you happy, fine. Just keep public policy out of it.

[_ajax18]

Whether one holds those beliefs or not, they should not be thrown at those who do as a form of insult for that very type of thinking is used to forward the very kinds of bigotry that most of us are opposed to.

Trying to clarify? Are you saying the belief in God and communication with God being labeled a mental illness is an example of bigotry? Or are you saying my testimony of God and the goodness of God to all of us being presented to Schmo is a form of bigotry?