The Redacted Mueller Report

[_Jersey Girl]

Whether one holds those beliefs or not, they should not be thrown at those who do as a form of insult for that very type of thinking is used to forward the very kinds of bigotry that most of us are opposed to.

Trying to clarify? Are you saying the belief in God and communication with God being labeled a mental illness is an example of bigotry? Or are you saying my testimony of God and the goodness of God to all of us being presented to Schmo is a form of bigotry?

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough. I'm referring to the near blanket condemnation of Christian believers and their faith on this board and the sheer hypocrisy of that condemnation.

I also tried to address and build supportively on your statement regarding questioning the church organization vs your questions regarding God and that you make your determinations based on what you believe to be true about God.

[_Some Schmo]

Are you saying the belief in God and communication with God being labeled a mental illness is an example of bigotry?

I didn't call it a mental illness, ajax. It's a metaphor. It's been my experience that people who are religiously inclined tend to be susceptible to all kinds of obvious BS (ghosts, spirits, demons, afterlife, conspiracies, science denial, etc.). Trump is a billboard of obvious BS and Evangelicals are eating it up. I'm hearing stuff like he's doing god's work. It's pure insanity.

I imagine the less seriously people take their religion, the less susceptible they are.

[_canpakes]

I'd like to have evidence for everything as well but you don't always get that luxury.

You don’t need it. You subconsciously know you don’t. You simply weigh your choices and settle on a best outcome.

Case in point: (1) how many colors are there? ... but (2) how many do you have names for?

We're here on earth to learn to walk by faith not by sight.

You have eyes for a reason, not a faith.

You can't have complete evidence for every decision you make in life and if you did you would paralyze yourself into inaction just trying to process it all.

There’s no reason to believe his. See color example above.

The truth is that we have no choice but to rely on faith some times.

Faith, in this case, is the weighing of odds determined by fact and observation.

Case in point: you will never, ever walk off a tall cliff, to dash on the rocks below, on faith that God will not let you die. You know that my statement is true, because you ultimately realize that faith loses out to fact in direct proportion to your experience with fact.

How is it possible that my facts can be stronger than your faith on this dare?

[_Jersey Girl]

Mueller Report: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.

NSFW. Not even close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMBj_tU7HRU

[_aussieguy55]

Kenneth Copeland regularly says God has reveal something to him as he lives in posh home and has the use of a plane called his "preaching machine"also used for trips for snow skiing.

[_Gunnar]

Mueller Report: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.

NSFW. Not even close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMBj_tU7HRU

Safe for work or not, it was definitely both hilarious and on point!

[_ajax18]

How is it possible that my facts can be stronger than your faith on this dare?

When someone pays tithing knowing they most likely will not be compensated until the next life, how is that not an act of faith? Do you think these people weighed the evidence of temporal blessing returns on tithes paid. If they did and that was their reason, I doubt very many would be paying.

[_Some Schmo]

When someone pays tithing knowing they most likely will not be compensated until the next life, how is that not an act of faith?

They don't know they'll be compensated. That's the crap they tell themselves to make the act palatable.

Do you think these people weighed the evidence of temporal blessing returns on tithes paid.

Of course not. It's all pretty thoughtless.

If they did and that was their reason, I doubt very many would be paying.

Most people don't pay. Only people who've been suckered pay.

But hey, who am I to criticize? If you'd like, I could offer you an invisible product and you can pay me for that too. You can have faith you'll get something out of it. If you need me to promise something non-concrete, let me know what it is and I'll provide the desired lip-service. What a deal, right? (At least, that's the deal you have now).

[_honorentheos]

I think most people will agree that Clinton quote because it is designed to be an inoffensive bromide.

Here's the thing. We aren't roommates with the 30% of people who voted for and support Trump who aren't too different from Ajax at a base level. We aren't going to fight until the lease is up and then go our separate ways. We're locked in a room together where the way out requires cooperation. I'm not confusing things, EA. If an inoffensive bromide is where we first land on common ground from which to build, that's where we are.

[_EAllusion]

I think most people will agree that Clinton quote because it is designed to be an inoffensive bromide.

Here's the thing. We aren't roommates with the 30% of people who voted for and support Trump who aren't too different from Ajax at a base level. We aren't going to fight until the lease is up and then go our separate ways. We're locked in a room together where the way out requires cooperation. I'm not confusing things, EAllusion. If an inoffensive bromide is where we first land on common ground from which to build, that's where we are.

I think the roughly 10-15% of the country that are Ajax’s are just a stable feature of society. I buy the thesis that personality variation just leads a certain % of the population susceptible to being “activated” as bigoted authoritarians. The particulars are just a matter of local culture and happenstance. The real question is how they got enough power to control a major political party that itself controls the majority of the government and continues to game the system to keep it that way. There’s a lot more people going along with the die hards because of that. You change people like Ajax via consistent exposure to people he has bigoted beliefs about and ex-radicals. Research is pretty clear about that part. You aren’t going to win him over with bromides about the American Dream. It is far less clear what you do about the institutional problem. A very realistic scenario here is that the US is already screwed and we’re just rearranging chairs on the Titanic. Authoritarian institutional takeovers can be very hard to dislodge once they set in.