Trump is a Threat to National Security

[_moksha]

Liberal Western Democracy is held together by trust in the same way authoritarian regimes rely on fear.

I think the destabilization of this trust is what Russia is going for by seeking to stir up trouble between various groups of people in the US and by giving us a dysfunctional President.

[_Kevin Graham]

A commentator made a great point tonight saying what sets us apart as a free country is our founding principles and established institutions of a 1. free press, 2. oversight/checks and balances, and 3. a Republic with an independent Justice department.

Donald Trump has been trying to dismantle all three, like any autocrat would want. I mean seriously, all this talk about whether or not Trump is a "spy" is a straw man that misses the point. You don't have to be a spy to be a compromised threat. Of course he isn't a spy. I'm not sure anyone on the left ever argued this. What is perfectly clear however is that he is doing the bidding of Putin. We know Putin has been trying to dismantle our democracy for years now and never has he been so successful as he is now because we have a moron in the office who cares only about himself.

It is obviously important for Putin that he destroys America from the inside, and what better way that to do what we've been doing to other countries. We put in place a ruler who thinks like we do and change the principles of that country from the inside. Trump is making Putin proud, and he's testing every Constitutional boundary that exists using all the tactics he learned in his own family business which has been run like a crime syndicate. What pisses me off is the Democrats laying down and not pushing for immediate impeachment. This guy is a threat in every sense of the word. Stop damned around and defend the Constitution.

[_Jersey Girl]

What pisses me off is the Democrats laying down and not pushing for immediate impeachment. This guy is a threat in every sense of the word. Stop damned around and defend the Constitution.

Why do you think the Democrats are dragging their feet?

[_EAllusion]

What pisses me off is the Democrats laying down and not pushing for immediate impeachment. This guy is a threat in every sense of the word. Stop ____ around and defend the Constitution.

Why do you think the Democrats are dragging their feet?

They want to win in 2020 and believe that a push towards impeachment that will die in the Senate will reduce their odds of doing so. Trump winning reelection and coattailing Republican office-holders with him will be quite devastating and they are hyper-cautious about anything that will increase the odds of this happening. I side with those who think this is moral and professional cowardice, a dubious electoral calculation, and risks a collapse of the entire system. No one ever accused the Democratic party of being brave, brilliant at electioneering, or adept at taking the long-view.

Trump is a fundamental, lawless threat to the basic functioning of a liberal democracy. He's committing impeachable offenses on a routine basis to the point that the frequency of violations is a perverse inoculation against attempts to address them because it fogs public attention. When Democrats are being investigated by the DoJ on made-up pretexts, they'll probably wish they were more proactive about bring as much public pressure to bear as they could.

[_huckelberry]

I do not see how starting an impeachment drive now will accomplish anything good. I do not see how it will protect the constitution or democracy. I see futile grandstanding signifying nothing.

[_Kevin Graham]

I do not see how starting an impeachment drive now will accomplish anything good. I do not see how it will protect the constitution or democracy. I see futile grandstanding signifying nothing.

Then maybe you should try reading the Constitution as well.

[_huckelberry]

I do not see how starting an impeachment drive now will accomplish anything good. I do not see how it will protect the constitution or democracy. I see futile grandstanding signifying nothing.

Then maybe you should try reading the Constitution as well.

A non response.

[_EAllusion]

I do not see how starting an impeachment drive now will accomplish anything good. I do not see how it will protect the constitution or democracy. I see futile grandstanding signifying nothing.

1) Trump has committed impeachable offenses and people in Congress have a professional duty to address them through the Constitutional mechanism afforded them to do so.

2) Aside from the ethical obligation, by failure to do this, it gives license for Trump to continue to commit and expand upon impeachable offenses. It also gives future presidents a belief that they may do so as well. It is a profound moral hazard. Once presidents believe they can behave without lawful restraint so long as they have 34 people in the Senate politically backing them, dictatorship is just a matter of time. It will be sooner rather than later. You have to at least attempt to maximize risk for extreme misconduct from a president.

Second Amendment) Given Trump's current and past behavior, this includes actions that affect whether democracy itself can function. If there isn't scrutiny, you are increasing the odds Trump's team will encourage criminal behavior to tilt elections in their favor. They have shown they are not above this. They may do it anyway, but we should at least try to stop them.

3) It will bring to public attention just what Trump has done. You may assume that this is widely known, but it isn't, because it's a complicated subject and right-wing propaganda has a vast hold on public attention that obscures criticisms of Republican actions. By having impeachment hearings and the direct, extensive media attention this brings, you very well might create public pressure that will "accomplish something" such as increasing electoral pressure on those who block attempts to remove Trump from office. Public opinion didn't turn against Nixon until after there were impeachment hearings outlining just what he did, which at this point is child's play compared to the Trump admin.

[_Kevin Graham]

A non response.

And yours was? Why don't you address something of substance instead of throwing around your baseless assertions? It isn't like this thread and others haven't already argued in detail why impeachment is a constitutional duty. Have waving Trump's constant constitutional violations by saying Democrats just want to "grand stand" flies in the face of the fact that this ISN'T what they're doing.

Political Grandstanding would be insisting the investigators be investigated. Or holding a sixth Benghazi investigation because you just don't like the results of the first five. You make it sound like there is no basis whatsoever for impeachment, which says plenty about where you bury your head.

[_Dr Exiled]

Anyone not an ally of Putin should be very concerned by a president not using his own translator to talk to a leader of our biggest adversary. It's holy ____ big.

Maybe, if something can be shown that resulted from this discussion, then it could be holy crap big, like you say. In any event, if Putin is controlling Trump or if there is some collusion going on, wouldn't the communications be behind the scenes? Also, if better relations with Russia result, isn't that a good thing? Maybe the holy crap big could be good, if peace results. However, sure, we should watch closely. But merely speaking out of earshot of the media, in and of itself, is not necessarily a holy crap moment, in my opinion.