Trump on the Couch

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_Gunnar
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _Gunnar »

Jersey Girl wrote:1. What are his sources for the absence of a strong maternal force?

Will you share a sample anecdote about that? It doesn't matter which type of source you choose.

As I said, most of the evidences of the absence of a strong maternal force given by Dr. Frank are given in chapter 1 of his book. Here some anecdotal examples:

1. The birth of Robert, Donald's youngest sibling when Donald was only 2 years old. According to Dr. Frank, "Robert's birth was difficult, followed by near-fatal hemorrhaging and a series of subsequent life-threatening infections and surgeries, which required several years of recovery and left Mary Trump in fragile heath thereafter." This was, of course, not his mother's fault, but it limited the amount of time and energy she had to devote to nurturing two year old Donald at the same time he acquired a new brother who displaced him from the position of the "baby of the family," which undoubtedly sparked some sibling rivalry and resentment of his younger brother.

2. When she finally recovered some measure of her health and stamina, she spent a lot of her time "...managing a house with servants, busying herself with volunteer work, and famously riding around Queens in a rose-colored Rolls Royce with vanity plates, collecting the change from her husband's building's laundry machines."

3. Dr. Frank quotes Politico's Michael Kruse, one of his sources about Trump's early life, who said, "Mary Trump simply wasn't very present in Donald's Childhood." Kruse further reported that, "..."Trump's childhood friends attest to her absence: Mark Goldberg, described as 'an early pal,' reports that while Trump's father 'would be around to watch him play,' his mother 'didn't interact in that way.'"

For much more relevant details on this, see the book when you get a chance to read a copy of it. :smile:

If your local county library doesn't have a copy, check to see if they have a program similar to the one by which my county library was able to get one at no cost to me.
Last edited by Guest on Tue May 07, 2019 10:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Thanks, Gunnar! I just got done reading her wiki page. She was Scottish. That explains everything. Celtic women are crazy. I'm talking scary crazy. ;-)

From her wiki: She drove a Rolls Royce that bore the vanity plates "MMT".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Anne_MacLeod_Trump

She branded herself.

Here's one of her photos: https://images.app.goo.gl/KHpatUktu5PL56VEA

So basically, Trump is his own mother.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Gunnar
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _Gunnar »

Jersey Girl wrote:So basically, Trump is his own mother.

I guess that's one way of looking at it. Trump even copied her hairdo! I can't help having some sympathy for his mother, though. She had some rough and unfortunate experiences in her life, among which was being married to Fred Trump Sr. It is interesting that one of Fred's brothers turned out to be a highly accomplished and respected physicist and professor at MIT--a profession for which Fred had nothing but utter disdain. This undoubtedly influenced Donald's own obvious disdain for scientific fact and reality.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_EAllusion
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _EAllusion »

The idea that a inattentive mother causes NPD has no evidential basis and is reminiscent of the "refrigerator mother" hypothesis for autism. "Proving" Trump has NPD because his mom had struggles that could divide her attention when he was a toddler is pure crackpot level psychological commentary.

The idea that people with NPD crave detractors and are fulfilled by them is also quite wrong. Depending on the severity of the NPD, they view any attempt at criticism or disagreement as a threat. They're hyper-sensitive about negative opinions of them. They have a paper-thin tolerance for it and can ascribe grandiose, dark motives or traits to those that offer them.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _Some Schmo »

It doesn't really matter how Trump became a massive asshole. What difference does it make? If we found out his uncle screwed him when he was seven, would it soften your opinion of him? It wouldn't affect mine (since I suspect something like that happened anyway). Trying to understand how he got that way is a costly distraction from doing something about it.

The problem is that this country is filled with idiotic assholes, which is why his approval never dips below 35%. Lying and protecting stupidity is the Republican way.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_EAllusion
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _EAllusion »

I have one person with NPD on my caseload. Donald Trump's narcissistic traits are like a parody of hers they're so extreme. It's almost amusing how hard he checks those boxes. When I was in college, I had a class where I had to write fictional case studies for various disorders. If I just literally described Trump for one of those, I'm pretty sure my grade would've suffered because it would be seen as too over the top.

I wonder if you gave my NPD client a bunch of money and made her president would she behave like Donald Trump. Can't know for sure, but my intuition keeps coming up, "Yeah, probably."
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Ok, that’s scarier than the tick.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _Jersey Girl »

EAllusion wrote:
The idea that people with NPD crave detractors and are fulfilled by them is also quite wrong. Depending on the severity of the NPD, they view any attempt at criticism or disagreement as a threat. They're hyper-sensitive about negative opinions of them. They have a paper-thin tolerance for it and can ascribe grandiose, dark motives or traits to those that offer them.


I don't think anyone on the thread said that he craves and is fulfilled by detractors. With regard to how he draws negative attention (gets a rise out of people) I'm talking about how he intentionally provokes. Not how he experiences shame.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_EAllusion
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _EAllusion »

Jersey Girl wrote:
I don't think anyone on the thread said that he craves and is fulfilled by detractors. With regard to how he draws negative attention (gets a rise out of people) I'm talking about how he intentionally provokes. Not how he experiences shame.
NPD is the disorder of can dish it out, but cannot take it.

Which, of course, fits Trump perfectly.
_Gunnar
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Re: Trump on the Couch

Post by _Gunnar »

EAllusion wrote:The idea that a inattentive mother causes NPD has no evidential basis and is reminiscent of the "refrigerator mother" hypothesis for autism. "Proving" Trump has NPD because his mom had struggles that could divide her attention when he was a toddler is pure crackpot level psychological commentary.

The idea that people with NPD crave detractors and are fulfilled by them is also quite wrong. Depending on the severity of the NPD, they view any attempt at criticism or disagreement as a threat. They're hyper-sensitive about negative opinions of them. They have a paper-thin tolerance for it and can ascribe grandiose, dark motives or traits to those that offer them.

That people with NPD crave detractors and are fulfilled by them doesn't make sense to me either. I would think it likely, though, that people with NPD would be triggered by detractors and critics to double down on the narcissism, and become even more irrational and paranoid.

As for what causes NPD, is there any kind of evidence based scientific consensus about that? Does a child's upbringing and environment have anything at all to do with it, or is it mostly or wholly a genetically inherited trait? If the latter, is it at all treatable or preventable?
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
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