Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _I have a question »

Lemmie wrote:Siliconn makes some excellent points here:

Siliconn > DanielPeterson • 2 hours ago

...I would GREATLY appreciate a direct answer as to why you doubt that a senior church official (possibly JSF) decided to cut out the 1832 first vision account pages and "sit on" them for so many years? Nothing about motive, but what facts at your disposal lead you to question whether it happened?

DanielPeterson Mod > Siliconn • 2 hours ago

I don't know that it happened because the evidence for its having happened is lacking.

Isn't that enough reason for withholding a vote of guilty?

So Dan is now saying that an absence of evidence IS evidence of absence? Do I have that right?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Markk
_Emeritus
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:04 am

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _Markk »

Exiled wrote:When I played Rugby against BYU teams back in the day, they were known for cheap shots. One had to watch for elbows and fists and knees to the thigh. Now that I remember, I believe DCP was at those games taking notes. :lol:

Yes, you would know that if you have been to a Chuck O Rama when he was there.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_Stem
_Emeritus
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:21 pm

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _Stem »

LaMar Peterson's notes circa 1953:

Was told not to copy or tell what they contained. Said it was a 'strange' account of the First Vision. Was put back in vault. Remains unused, unknown.

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Ques ... is_safe%3F

It sounds to me like Dan Peterson is trying to say that the account might have been unknown by Joseph Fielding Smith, so it might not have been a suppression and that justifies his claim that there was no suppression. As if JSF put it in his safe and didn't really know or pay attention to what he was putting in there. One must wonder if LaMar Peterson didn't look into it, when would anyone else have heard of the 1832 account? It took over a decade before the strange account was acknowledged by others. calling it strange and saying it can't be copied or related to anyone else is what suppression is.

Well, since all of that happened, the Church still struggles with this. The essay on the first vision accounts doesn't really acknowledge the strangeness of the '32 account. On Dan's blog he lists a couple of sources from the late 60s early 70s that in his mind detail the issues around this strange account. But sadly, when you read those 3 or 4 items you see that there was hardly any effort to address the strangeness. There was only effort to summarize by saying it wasn't really strange at all.

Interestingly enough, Steven Harper [https://religion.BYU.edu/steven_harper — DCP came and spoke to our stake yesterday. (Yes, in Lyman, Wyoming!) He addressed this very issue, indicating that the account was brought across the plains by Willard Richards, got put into the historian’s office, and was subsequently neglected and lost in the stacks, so to speak. It was discovered by a scholar (Steve didn’t say who) in 1965 and has been widely disseminated since then.]

So Steven Harper's in on this too? it was not discovered in 1965. It was already known about, but kept hidden. can someone inform Steven Harper about what it means to be discovered?

Its funny how we humans tend to paint things in a way we want them to be.

oh and by the way I'm the David B. Glad I got a small mention by the honorable RFM.
_consiglieri
_Emeritus
Posts: 6186
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:47 pm

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _consiglieri »

Holy cow! That was you?! You did a fantastic job! Pep Pep!
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _Shulem »

mogreybeard wrote:So give a better answer. I’ve read everything on the subject. Why would someone cut out the account and put it in a vault? The most logical is that JFS didn’t find it helpful. The onus would be on you to come up with a more plausible solution. We don’t do any favors by simple dismissals with no answers.

Louis Midgley wrote:It appears that no one knows who or exactly why it was removed (and then carefully preserved), or even who did it. If it was Joseph Fielding Smith, and his reason was that he "didn't find it helpful," so what?

So what?

:evil:

Stupid damned Louis Midgley!
_Stem
_Emeritus
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:21 pm

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _Stem »

consiglieri wrote:Holy cow! That was you?! You did a fantastic job! Pep Pep!

well thanks. I don't' remember much of that exchange. I think my interest faded quickly when I realized he/they'd keep repeating themselves. It was good Bill stepped in and finished them off, I don't think I had the fortitude.
_Everybody Wang Chung
_Emeritus
Posts: 4056
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:53 am

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

Stem wrote:
consiglieri wrote:Holy cow! That was you?! You did a fantastic job! Pep Pep!


well thanks. I don't' remember much of that exchange. I think my interest faded quickly when I realized he/they'd keep repeating themselves. It was good Bill stepped in and finished them off, I don't think I had the fortitude.


Stem,

You did an excellent job!
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _moksha »

Daniel Peterson wrote:I don't know that it happened because the evidence for its having happened is lacking.

This is the point where you are usually told to fast and pray about it, followed by the suggestion that you "fake it till you make it".



Image
The Various First Visions Quilt
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Radio Free Mormon: Daniel C. Peterson: The Artful Dodger

Post by _Shulem »

Sandra Tanner, John Dehlin, grindael Podcast

Screw you, Daniel Peterson! You're a Goddamn liar!

:evil:
Post Reply