Drawings by immigrant children

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm talking to you, an person thinking, or not thinking, with implanted emotional arguments by the media.

No you aren't. You're talking to a person with three decades in child development which is why I posted the OP. Everyone here knows that about me, why don't you?

Your question is based on nonsense and you offer no solution. Should we look at pictures of these kids lives as a whole? Most of them have seen things that are unspeakable in their journey. Google images " cartel violence Mexico" ...these kids probably feel safe in the centers if anything.

My question was based on your nonsense statement regarding the Obama and Bush administrations. You still avoid answering it as if you didn't initiate the exchange yourself.

Keep lobbing more stuff on the pile to avoid answering. I'm sure you'll get to the kitchen sink before long.

How many lives of young kids and people in general did we save, or really help out, at these detention centers?

Do you just want to open the borders Jersey Girl?

I'll respond to your questions when you're done answering those that I posed to you. Which you won't. You'll just keep avoiding and dodging. I won't move an inch in your direction until you answer the two questions that I posed to you.

So, your choices are to answer the two questions or continue to dodge.

Being detained for a short time until they sort things out is not a bad thing given the alternative Jersey Girl. Can we make it more comfortable for them, and speed the process...maybe...then tell congress, both sides, to give more money to the problem. But if you think we can offer refugees and criminals hotel rooms you are not living in the real world. If you think we can just open the border...wake up.

I've posted repeatedly and at great length regarding the conditions under which migrant children are living.

You can answer those two questions any time you like.

[_Jersey Girl]

And???? We can p-hack all day long, and you like Jersey Girl are being used by the media to form your opinions.

You know there are posters here whose rudeness I overlook because well, we all get a little rude now and then. In your case, rudeness and pulling stuff out of thin air is your MO whenever you can't cut it. You simply invent stuff.

Let's look at this again:

you like Jersey Girl are being used by the media to form your opinions.

What opinions have I expressed regarding US custody conditions on this thread, Markk?

(That's question #3 now.)

[_Jersey Girl]

As Markk feverishly tries to find yet another dodge with which to divert attention away from the topic or take any responsibility for responding to statements that he himself put on the screen, I'd like to remind the teeming masses who are reading here that the topic is actually about the impact of conditions to migrant children are forced to endure while in US custody for months and while separated from their presumed/alleged adult family members.

You could take a look at the drawings contained in the link of the OP. We could talk about the facial expressions in the drawings, the fact that a wire ceiling is drawn over the top of one of them making it a 3 dimensional structure, the drawing where adults are separated from the children--even though we don't rightly know just who those adults are, we could talk about the fact that the children in the drawing are separated from the children next to it and why that might be, we might talk about therapeutic solutions, we could posit whether or not adults may have issued prompts for the drawings to produce an expected outcome, or like Markk, you could just jump in here scribbling crap all over the walls of this thread, throwing spitballs at your fellow and sister discussors to hide the fact that you can't find the topic with both hands and a floodlight.

Possibly not even a GPS.

[Guest]

As Markk feverishly tries to find yet another dodge with which to divert attention away from the topic or take any responsibility for responding to statements that he himself put on the screen, I'd like to remind the teeming masses who are reading here that the topic is actually about the impact of conditions to migrant children are forced to endure while in US custody for months and while separated from their presumed/alleged adult family members.

You could take a look at the drawings contained in the link of the OP. We could talk about the facial expressions in the drawings, the fact that a wire ceiling is drawn over the top of one of them making it a 3 dimensional structure, the drawing where adults are separated from the children--even though we don't rightly know just who those adults are, we could talk about the fact that the children in the drawing are separated from the children next to it and why that might be, we might talk about therapeutic solutions, we could posit whether or not adults may have issued prompts for the drawings to produce an expected outcome, or like Markk, you could just jump in here scribbling crap all over the walls of this thread, throwing spitballs at your fellow and sister discussors to hide the fact that you can't find the topic with both hands and a floodlight.

Possibly not even a GPS.

Thank you, Jersey. Really sad to see conservatives dumbing themselves down to this level. Talk about formed by the media, here you see the fruits of 30 years of Rush and 20 years of Fox News.

Markk: "Bull, you just surf the net and find a narrative that fits your argument, that what we do here, whether it be politics, sports, or religion."

A projectionist just like his master.

[_honorentheos]

The underlying issue with Markk's claims and behaviour is he seems to not accept the basic process of discussion. Instead, he seems to primarily view the process of online discussion as consisting of competing appeals to authority. He claims anecdotes as evidence all the time and asserts people who post information that challenges his view are data mining so no need to provide counter information.

It seems Markk just doesn't grasp how knowledge works.

[_Maksutov]

The underlying issue with Markk's claims and behaviour is he seems to not accept the basic process of discussion. Instead, he seems to primarily view the process of online discussion as consisting of competing appeals to authority. He claims anecdotes as evidence all the time and asserts people who post information that challenges his view are data mining so no need to provide counter information.

It seems Markk just doesn't grasp how knowledge works.

Who needs a brain when you have a tribe?

[_Jersey Girl]

As Markk feverishly tries to find yet another dodge with which to divert attention away from the topic or take any responsibility for responding to statements that he himself put on the screen, I'd like to remind the teeming masses who are reading here that the topic is actually about the impact of conditions to migrant children are forced to endure while in US custody for months and while separated from their presumed/alleged adult family members.

You could take a look at the drawings contained in the link of the OP. We could talk about the facial expressions in the drawings, the fact that a wire ceiling is drawn over the top of one of them making it a 3 dimensional structure, the drawing where adults are separated from the children--even though we don't rightly know just who those adults are, we could talk about the fact that the children in the drawing are separated from the children next to it and why that might be, we might talk about therapeutic solutions, we could posit whether or not adults may have issued prompts for the drawings to produce an expected outcome, or like Markk, you could just jump in here scribbling crap all over the walls of this thread, throwing spitballs at your fellow and sister discussors to hide the fact that you can't find the topic with both hands and a floodlight.

Possibly not even a GPS.

Thank you, Jersey. Really sad to see conservatives dumbing themselves down to this level. Talk about formed by the media, here you see the fruits of 30 years of Rush and 20 years of Fox News.

Markk: "Bull, you just surf the net and find a narrative that fits your argument, that what we do here, whether it be politics, sports, or religion."

A projectionist just like his master.

Oh I know from Rush and his ilk. Trust me I do. I've heard it probably for decades. I tend to listen to and read from all sides, taking everything with a grain of salt (sometimes the entire shaker) and on the watch for manipulation including the advocacy groups I'm subscribed to. In this case, until I'm able to walk in to a facility and see it with my own eyes, hear from the powers that be and the detainees, I try to sift through things as best I can from afar.

I would have liked to discuss the nature of the children's drawings and what they might tell us about the child artists. But of course it's got to be about Trump.

If nothing else, I might have sent a message that you can tell something about a child and the way in which they experience the world from their art expressions and particularly if you have a chance to ask the child themselves to tell you about what they drew or painted because it's not always about what you think you see in your adult mind.

I have to wonder with the 3 drawings that were linked to, if adults prompted them for a predicted outcome. We'll never know that. I know that I have the ability to make a child produce what I want them to--"you can draw with these markers and paper" vs. "draw a picture of your family when they were fighting and how angry and sad you were." I can make that happen. So can the doctors who received the drawings or whomever prompted them. They look like they are all on 8X8 or 10x10-ish canvas. Did someone have the children draw those for an intended outcome and for adult display?

Where are the colored markers? Were children given markers from office supplies? Did adults limit the colors to all black and possibly green (or is that a drying black marker?) because they wanted the drawings to appear more stark? Do the children have any art supplies or colored markers? For a couple hundred bucks, I could fill them up with an abundance of materials.

Why doesn't Markk care about any of these questions? He keeps harping on others and parroting if we just want to open the borders like that's the only question he can come up.

Do the children have flippin' colored markers and newsprint? Does Markk care about anything like that?

[_Jersey Girl]

The underlying issue with Markk's claims and behaviour is he seems to not accept the basic process of discussion. Instead, he seems to primarily view the process of online discussion as consisting of competing appeals to authority. He claims anecdotes as evidence all the time and asserts people who post information that challenges his view are data mining so no need to provide counter information.

It seems Markk just doesn't grasp how knowledge works.

He doesn't have any idea about how to engage in two-way exchanges and I have to say, it's tedious. I can't keep going back to get him to fix the mistake he's currently made while he continues to make more. It's like shoveling snow in a blizzard.

I think that our thoughts and ideas (whether we agree or disagree) deserve better engagement than this. There is also no reason for him to persist in lumping you and I together except for the possible fact that he sees us as "the other". That's not what this thread was about.

It was about the children's drawings. What we might think about them and how we might think about them. And in response to that he sidesteps the drawings by saying they could have been drawings of any high school type environment. Yeah, they could have.

But they aren't.

They are drawings made by migrant children currently held in US custody in what appear to be adverse conditions in highly restrictive environments while separated from their adults for months of their young lives.

The drawings speak. As I mentioned in a reply to Mak just now, the drawings even raise questions about what the children have access to and how they spend their time while they are detained 24/7.

Do they have paper?
Do they have colored markers?
Were they doled out a small temporary supply to make the drawings?
What do they do all day?
Are they taken outside and for how long?

If they don't have adequate intellectual, social, or physical stimulation then what other of their needs is going unmet?

Do the drawings speak of adult manipulation? I don't know. I do know that there were many subtopics we could have gotten from the drawings before we started going around in Markk's little vortex of nothing and for nothing.

[_Jersey Girl]

Okay now I'm stuck on this issue. :-) If I sent down a shipment to one of these facilities do you all think they'd keep it and use it for the children? Or do you think they'd rip it off and take it home?

[_honorentheos]

Looking back, it seems Shades was the first to take the thread into the underlying politics with his claimed rumor kids were being trafficked to help people get across the border. Markk came in with his anecdote regarding an in law who worked for CBP. The relevant bits:

...he said they never separate children from their parents unless their parents have a hold, or warrant...then they make every effort to put them with a family member.

People are screened, then basically given a summons to appear in front of a immigration judge and released in the US. Most just shine it on.

The children and adults are in detention centers, not prisons...the same ones that Clinton, Bush and Obama used.

He told me they have like 30 thousand people coming into his station a month, and the best day he had he processed 8 people.

He also noted that most in his sector are from Central America, not Mexico.

Nothing in that is controversial. Most people know the Trump admin was told to stop forced separations and start returning children to their parents after the outcry last year. And the centers are largely facilities built and used prior to the Trump administration. I'm sure Markk has it in his head that people who are opposed to what is happening imagine Trump created a horror show where everything was unicorns and cotton candy before. And there are almost certainly people who DO view it that way.

Trouble is, none of them are people with whom he is engaging in this thread. So his response that people are being manipulated by the media is aimed at the strawman poster who thinks Obama= Unicorns & Cotton Candy, Trump=Horror Show.

Honestly? He seems to read just enough to get the gist of what someone thinks and then regurgitates up the response he has for people who are on a given side of an issue. It's why the discussions regarding homeless, immigration and politics all get rolled into, "If you all would just get off your couches and see what I see you'd start to understand." In Markkland, the problems are all lumped into people not seeing what he sees and therefore not actually understanding what he understands. And the only solution is to do what he did and see what he sees. No discussion will accomplish that. So, "Do you even basketball/see homeless people/know who builds your homes/remember the last time the bong resin between your ears asserted itself?" becomes the inevitable response in a discussion