honorentheos wrote:Answer to 1) I think you mean something other than reality because you keep forgetting asylum can only be sought at the border or from inside the US. You seem to be asking how many asylum seekers first sought refugee status. But showing up at the border to request asylum doesn't make a person an illegal immigrant so there's a flaw in your question. Turns out a person can legally seek asylum at the border. Answer to 2) I assume you mean as determined by a court as there is this thing called due process. And that answer depends on which court hears the case and your nationality. We've been over this.
So, you seemingly understand the distinction in (1) but fail to provide the data, which you allegedly posses given your claim.
Let me make it less evasive for you:
How many illegal immigrants seeking asylum first sought asylum at a legal border crossing?
as for (2), the questions remains...but the answer remains unrevealed by the self-proclaimed knowledgeable poster....the admission has already been offerred for the "depends on" factor...but still....do you not have any percentage?
or maybe you just overstated your qualifications on this subject? you must just have a bunch of anecdotes.
Funny thing, subbie. Turns out we can go back and see exactly what it was I said. It was - I live in Arizona and have a profession interest that intersects the issues at the border. I have a bit more than a news surfers knowledge on this subject.
You translated that into a question on demographics and statistics. So whatever you want to think, have at it.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
So Markk, here's a bit from DHS's website about the recently upheld Migrant Protection Protocols that represent the current standards. These were challenged but upheld in the 9th Circuit.
Relevant quotes: What Are the Migrant Protection Protocols? The Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP) are a U.S. Government action whereby certain foreign individuals entering or seeking admission to the U.S. from Mexico – illegally or without proper documentation – may be returned to Mexico and wait outside of the U.S. for the duration of their immigration proceedings, where Mexico will provide them with all appropriate humanitarian protections for the duration of their stay.
Who is Subject to MPP? With certain exceptions, MPP applies to aliens arriving in the U.S. on land from Mexico (including those apprehended along the border) who are not clearly admissible and who are placed in removal proceedings under INA § 240. This includes aliens who claim a fear of return to Mexico at any point during apprehension, processing, or such proceedings, but who have been assessed not to be more likely than not to face persecution or torture in Mexico. Unaccompanied alien children and aliens in expedited removal proceedings will not be subject to MPP. Other individuals from vulnerable populations may be excluded on a case-by-case basis.
So. Again, where's you actual supportive evidence for your claims? Connected the dots between the ease of getting in by knowing the magic phrases v. the abysmally low processing rate quoted in your anecdote yet?
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Markk wrote:My nephew, who is a border patrol agent, told me there are two things that are critical for a immigrant seeking asylum...basically that they have "suffered" or have a "fear" of persecution or a present danger to their lives... as both of these links confirm.
His job was processing the first step...he asks basic questions, and starts the process. The best day he had, he said he processes 8 people.
Markk, given that rate, how many folks does your nephew work with at that location that are doing the same processing?
Like Honor, I’m trying to determine how easily the unwashed hordes are making it into the country.
honorentheos. you note personal connection to this problem in Arizona, you might have helpful information about a question.
I have a relative with whom I wish to limit political debate with who posed an argument. Proposal was before Trump Arizona cps was so overwhelmed they could not do their job. Now that Trump policies for the border are in place Arizona cps has been able to go back to their work and help Arizona children. Praise Trump.
I do not think putting children in cages is a good solution . A am also skeptical of the report though perhaps there is something to it.(?)
huckelberry wrote:honorentheos. you note personal connection to this problem in Arizona, you might have helpful information about a question.
I have a relative with whom I wish to limit political debate with who posed an argument. Proposal was before Trump Arizona cps was so overwhelmed they could not do their job. Now that Trump policies for the border are in place Arizona cps has been able to go back to their work and help Arizona children. Praise Trump.
I do not think putting children in cages is a good solution . A am also skeptical of the report though perhaps there is something to it.(?)
Relative might mean CBP. But I wonder what policies s/he is referring to, or what effects.
Our immigration situation is a bipartisan failure and disgrace. No points to either team. What is happening now is that matters are growing worse and all we seem to have are rounds of partisan fingerpointing and shrill activists.
huckelberry wrote:honorentheos. you note personal connection to this problem in Arizona, you might have helpful information about a question.
I have a relative with whom I wish to limit political debate with who posed an argument. Proposal was before Trump Arizona cps was so overwhelmed they could not do their job. Now that Trump policies for the border are in place Arizona cps has been able to go back to their work and help Arizona children. Praise Trump.
I do not think putting children in cages is a good solution . A am also skeptical of the report though perhaps there is something to it.(?)
Hi huckelberry I don't know what your relative is referencing. It seems like they are saying that child protective services was being overwhelmed due to illegal immigrants coming into Arizona but since Trump took office they are now able to focus on "Arizona children". That sounds like a just so story that someone made up. Arizona CPS has been in the news over the years for all the wrong reasons including case loads overwhelming staff to the point the backlog was front page news for a while, kids being forcably removed from homes for controversial reasons, and having had contact where nothing resulted from the contact but later a kid died from abuse. Governor Ducey enacted changes when he took office that have had an effect but to my knowledge that is an entirely different issue from border and immigration.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Maksutov wrote:Our immigration situation is a bipartisan failure and disgrace. No points to either team. What is happening now is that matters are growing worse and all we seem to have are rounds of partisan fingerpointing and shrill activists.
While I tend to agree, I think one of the major issues with it is that it is an international problem, solutions have local impacts, and national interests are polemic to the point one can't discuss it rationally in a typical public forum. Like so many other things in government right now, it doesn't take much to bring the gears grinding to a halt. It's not a problem with easy answers or quick fixes. But everyone thinks there are quick fixes and the people on the opposing side if the issue are not just expressing a different view but are morally bankrupt. Not exactly a recipe for successful compromise.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
honorentheos wrote:Hi huckelberry I don't know what your relative is referencing. It seems like they are saying that child protective services was being overwhelmed due to illegal immigrants coming into Arizona but since Trump took office they are now able to focus on "Arizona children". That sounds like a just so story that someone made up. Arizona CPS has been in the news over the years for all the wrong reasons including case loads overwhelming staff to the point the backlog was front page news for a while, kids being forcably removed from homes for controversial reasons, and having had contact where nothing resulted from the contact but later a kid died from abuse. Governor Ducey enacted changes when he took office that have had an effect but to my knowledge that is an entirely different issue from border and immigration.
Thanks for responding Honorentheos. What you observe fits what I would expect. State childrens services everywhere struggle to stay a bit ahead of those problems you note. I did not see how federal actions would be much involved.
honorentheos wrote:... - .... I have a bit more than a news surfers knowledge on this subject.
You translated that ....
Naw, i took it at face value, but since then your posts have fallen well short of confirming your claim. And yep, i guess i will have to settle for "having at it" , because you have left me with no other choice.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent