What will/did Mueller say?

[_Some Schmo]

As I think about it, I'm not sure there's much of a difference between racism and homophobia. It's been my experience that men often have a biological reaction to the thought of two men having sex: disgust. They will use that disgust as justification for calling it wrong, a sin, an abomination, unnatural, etc. etc. I know that's exactly what I did growing up. (Notice that men are far more forgiving of the idea of two women having sex).

Then as an adult, I realized my personal disgust was not an indicator of the virtue (or lack thereof) of homosexual activity. As soon as I realized that the only justification for my attitude was disgust, my attitude immediately changed. That was quite an epiphany.

Like with many things in life, consciousness and awareness lead to personal improvement. I suspect a lot of racism stems from the fact many people won't acknowledge their own innate reactions to visual stimuli. They pretend to be "colorblind" and preempt the work it takes to be a more enlightened, accepting person.

[_honorentheos]

Years and years ago i was pointed to the Harvard Implicit Bias testing website from a book I was reading. I was surprised to find myself with a bit of a racial bias. Turned out, most people have one. Even people of color can have them towards one another. It's complicated. It made me more conscious of where it may be and to think skeptically of my own reaction where it may be involved. I don't know what else one does.

Before Trump, or maybe Obama at least, I think most people were open to the idea that racial biases and prejudices could be involved in decision making they weren't necessarily aware of engaging in, and because it was low cost high reward to acknowledge that was a bad thing, people could mea culpa it and do better because doing better.

It's not like that most of the time anymore, certainly not in the public realm. Racism is leveled like a flamethrower on arguments like it's intended to shut down an argument and declare a winner because something appeared in it that might be racially motivated.

Now, being a comedian, you're probably observant of human nature. I'm sure you can predict the effect that has. Now you have people going, "You're racist. You've terrible" and the response is, "If you want to play that card then I'm racist and Screw you." All while deciding the person using the racism debate flamethrower is a simpleton. Then "You're a racist" "Screw you" becomes the dialog.

Now you could argue it's because of the evidence of racial bias that started it and that would be true. But so is the fact it's been politically weaponized to the point it's lost meaning to people who don't care to make the debate about race but view other issues as much more important. "But RACISM!" Ok.

[_Some Schmo]

But so is the fact it's been politically weaponized to the point it's lost meaning to people who don't care to make the debate about race but view other issues as much more important. "But RACISM!" Ok.

Your point isn't lost on me, honor. It's becoming more and more clear to me that the word is not as obvious to everyone else as I'd imagined.

I suppose I see it in a Maslow's Hierarchy kind of way. How can we self-actualize the country if we don't all feel like we belong? How can we feel like we belong when we're worried about our security? How can we take care of our security if people aren't being fed? Why do some people have easier access to food than others? Etc etc.

It seems to me an attitude of antipathy toward other people might be getting in the way of meeting the country's basic needs, let alone our more complex ones. Racism seems like one of the basic things we need to address to improve the country's overall well-being, so I understand why it's getting so much air time these days.

[Guest]

Are you sure you are seeing clear eyed and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong or just not seeing as clearly as you?

Sound like a part of the problem?

ETA: What I'm getting at, Schmo, is that it may be more complicated than just, "RACISM! BAD PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING IT!" which in turn could actual be making things worse because it isn't that simple nor is making it a political club one imagines has godlike powers to end an argument helping it's own cause out. My take on what mikwut has been asking is if there isn't a need to scale back reactions to the scale of what may be going on which happens to be more of a scale on a board with multiple other issues at play which makes racism claims start to sound less and less like a legitimate issue to many people. Facts do matter. I don't think it's one side choosing to ignore them and the other side choosing to assert them. People choose their facts to support their arguments, and to ignore the argument the other person is making diminishes the degree the other side will be willing to accept your argument and associated facts.

[_Some Schmo]

Are you sure you are seeing clear eyed and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong or just not seeing as clearly as you?

No.

Sound like a part of the problem?

What problem?

[_honorentheos]

I added while you were typing but it follows your post in a way so I'll repost it with hopefully better grammer.

What I'm getting at, Schmo, is that it may be more complicated than just, "THAT'S RACISM! BAD PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING IT!" which in turn could actually be making things worse because it isn't that simple in most cases though it certainly is in some. Nor is making it a political club one imagines has godlike powers to end an argument helping it's own cause out. My take on what mikwut has been asking is if there isn't a need to reassert a scalable reaction towards what may be going on which happens to be on a board with multiple other issues at play which makes racism claims start to sound less and less like a legitimate issue to many people. Facts do matter. I don't think it's one side choosing to ignore them and the other side choosing to assert them. People choose their facts to support their arguments, and to ignore the argument the other person is making diminishes the degree the other side will be willing to accept your argument and associated facts.

I won't lie. I'm starting to get tired of hearing it as the main complaint these days. Trump says or does something and "RACISM!" while there are complicated issues involved getting completely ignored or dealt with in many cases. But dare to engage in any discussion that isn't "RACISM!" and people get edgy as “F”. Almost like they are concerned others won't realize they aren't racist. I don' think it's helping the cause it's trying to combat anymore because it does no good to shut someone down with "RACISM!" when they are arguing something that was after some other concern but it's treated like the only reason we have a discussion board these days is to decry Trump and all Republicans as RACISTS!

Racism and racial bias are serious issues and problems that affect and cost people their lives. But Jesus Mary Mother of Christ it's like a zombie virus has infected people.

[_Some Schmo]

ETA: What I'm getting at, Schmo, is that it may be more complicated than just, "RACISM! BAD PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING IT!" which in turn could actual be making things worse because it isn't that simple nor is making it a political club one imagines has godlike powers to end an argument helping it's own cause out.

But "RACISM! BAD PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING IT!" is not at all my argument, honor. My argument is that we can and should do better, but we can't unless people are aware of it.

I've been pretty careful to say that people were enabling racism both consciously and unwittingly.

My take on what mikwut has been asking is if there isn't a need to scale back reactions to the scale of what may be going on which happens to be more of a scale on a board with multiple other issues at play which makes racism claims start to sound less and less like a legitimate issue to many people. Facts do matter. I don't think it's one side choosing to ignore them and the other side choosing to assert them. People choose their facts to support their arguments, and to ignore the argument the other person is making diminishes the degree the other side will be willing to accept your argument and associated facts.

What argument do you think I'm ignoring?

[_Some Schmo]

Racism and racial bias are serious issues and problems that affect and cost people their lives. But Jesus Mary Mother of Christ it's like a zombie virus has infected people.

Well, I suppose we could theoretically ignore everything Trump says. It would be easier than filtering out the 80% or so that's racist BS.

Dude, he's running a racist campaign. If only he and the GOP talked about substantive issues.

[_honorentheos]

Racism and racial bias are serious issues and problems that affect and cost people their lives. But Jesus Mary Mother of Christ it's like a zombie virus has infected people.

Well, I suppose we could theoretically ignore everything Trump says. It would be easier than filtering out the 80% or so that's racist BS.

Dude, he's running a racist campaign. If only he and the GOP talked about substantive issues.

It's not about ignoring it. It's about finding other notes to play as well.

The GOP, for all their faults, are pursuing issues, making policies, affecting the judicial system, and largely cutting a wide swath out of the political field besides the things Trump tweets. Most of it doesn't seem to align easily with historical conservative ideologies, so it's quite a deep vein to mine for trying to better understand what's going on in politics on the right. If it looks like racism and race baiting is all that is going on with them to someone, I would consider that a problem.

[_Some Schmo]

If it looks like racism and race baiting is all that is going on with them to someone, I would consider that a problem.

Yeah, me too.