I'm curious, what if humans don't agree with one another about what promoting a "moral society" would be/is? Doesn't universal/objective morality need to come from somewhere as a starting point? If so, where would you propose this objective morality comes from?
Matt Dillahunty notes that almost any debate/discussion over religion/God regardless of the starting topic always ends up debating morality.
I believe Matt states the case better than most I have heard. Instead of me trying to do it any justice spend 30 minutes listening to the following presentation: Atheist Debates - Morality
Ceebs' comment implies one needs to confront the Euthyphro dilemma again if one asserts a divine command theory of ethics. But one could also go back to the question, "Doesn't universal/objective morality need to come from somewhere as a starting point?" Does morality have to be universal or objective? If the answer to that is, "yes", then Euthyphro dilemma. But if no, then one is off in a more interesting direction, determining on what basis morality can be decided if it isn't a product of some divine external divine law.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
SteelHead wrote:I asked several years back on this board for an example of a moral that has been universal across human history - I don't think anyone produced such.
Farting outside. Always has been moral. Always will.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
honorentheos wrote:Ceebs' comment implies one needs to confront the Euthyphro dilemma again if one asserts a divine command theory of ethics. But one could also go back to the question, "Doesn't universal/objective morality need to come from somewhere as a starting point?" Does morality have to be universal or objective? If the answer to that is, "yes", then Euthyphro dilemma. But if no, then one is off in a more interesting direction, determining on what basis morality can be decided if it isn't a product of some divine external divine law.
In all cases, eventually, universal and objective morality is achieved and made manifest by the person(s) in the room with the biggest gun.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
subgenius wrote:In all cases, eventually, universal and objective moralitydesire is achieved and made manifest by the person(s) in the room with the biggest gun.
I'm curious, what if humans don't agree with one another about what promoting a "moral society" would be/is? Doesn't universal/objective morality need to come from somewhere as a starting point? If so, where would you propose this objective morality comes from?
Ceeboo might want to ponder where the concepts of love or care originate from, including the instructions for either.
subgenius wrote:In all cases, eventually, universal and objective morality is achieved and made manifest by the person(s) in the room with the biggest gun.
You are confusing power with oughtness. It's a common error in thinking among sociopaths.
SteelHead wrote:I asked several years back on this board for an example of a moral that has been universal across human history - I don't think anyone produced such.
I think you are looking for a moral view that has had universal agreement across human history? That would be hard to come up with because people naturally disagree about and progressively learn more about the world. It's almost impossible to come up with an interesting fact about the natural world that all people have believed through human history. No matter how trivial to idea, someone, somewhere has disagreed.
This should be kept distinct from whether there are moral principles that universally apply to people. That's a defensible position. It's more than defensible, in fact. Universalism seems built into the meaning of moral statements.