FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM

[_mikwut]

Kevin,

Sorry we disagree and you were not able to convince me. I take no umbrage.

You asked for examples of something, I provided NUMEROUS,

Examples of words or phrases that can find themselves used by actual white supremacists. Such an overlap is not proof of what you claim and it is reckless to smear people and leaders with the use of such charged and horrible language without proof. It is seriously like accusing someone of being a pedophile and then making them prove they are not. That correlation doesn't equal cause or a directly logical connection to being a white supremacist, sorry it just doesn't. I wouldn't dare present it as evidence in Court. It is conspiratorial. It is circular. It is media driven.

You seem to believe Trump isn't really anything that he really is

Listen to how certain you are. You don't say seemingly, or likely, you say is. When you do that you have to see things as supportive of your conclusion and your not open to the possibility of error.

Left created a false caricature of him in the media.

I was quite explicit that both sides of the media develop narratives that are false. I don't really want to hash out hundreds of examples, I believe it to be nearly obvious to serious people that aren't invested in one side being true and the other false.

This way, nothing Trump does or says can be used to prove the media is right about him because, well, your own little conspiracy theory says it is all a master plan for ratings.

My conspiracy theory? You are the one with a conspiracy theory that Trump and many of his associates are actual white supremacists. You are the one who has been charged to prove such hair raising allegation. If your saying the media being driven by the emergence of cable news ratings is a conspiracy well I guess I'm guilty, but that isn't nearly a stretch as yours. You even accept it but just for one side and not the other. The errors in Russia conspiracy are so numerous I won't waste time debating that. And you think ratings didn't drive that? Independents don't appreciate heightened rhetoric and smearing from either side. What is my evidence when I accept FOX is ratings driven that CNN isn't?

And here I thought you were going to be a serious person.

I am quite serious. That isn't an evidenced or rational argument that is an emotional response.

You criticize those who watch any form of mainstream media because that's where the real hate is

,

Not quite what I said. And what would the big deal be anyway your criticizing people for watching a certain form so am I.I encouraged that we stop supporting by our listening and support to charged, hyperbolic, hysterical, and nonsensical rhetoric found on both sides of the media. That is rational position.

while you gloat about having the TRUTH from a Russian funded internet outlet.

I didn't gloat. I presented it as the book that hasn't been released yet but the author who I have appreciated his work in the past being interviewed as a way to see what his book demonstrates. The fact it was on RT is irrelevant.

You can't make this ____ up.

Seriously?!? You can't make up media driven narratives that are really just meant to get views in a age of the internet when media has become extremely competitive? You can't make that up? Rather you choose the President of our Country is an actual white supremacist and you know this because of overlapping words even though context can clearly be seen from another narrative and perspective. OK, can't make that up.

mikwut

[_mikwut]

Hi Gunnar,

I'm glad you didn't vote for Trump and will not vote for him next year. Nevertheless, this last post of yours has reinforced my opinion that you are either willfully blind or cognitively impaired. But even if, despite all the evidence, Trump is not a dyed-in-the-wool white supremacist himself, can there really be any serious doubt that he deliberately panders to racists and white supremacists, and that at least some white supremacists take heart from his rhetoric and regard him as one of their own?

I bolded the last part as the the portion of your statement we could agree on. Just look at what you read. I haven't posted anything that is racist, charged or really problematic other than you disagree with it. But you respond with words like "cognitively impaired"? "willfully blind?". That isn't rational, that is emotional. It is unnecessary. You should embrace disagreement to sharpen your political opinions. Surely you don't believe you are just right and that's that do you?

Obviously many of these mass shooters do! Do you deny that?

Yes. I do. I believe it reduces a very complex matter to a boogeyman simplicity. But I don't believe you are willfully blind or cognitively impaired. Thanks for the post.

mikwut

[_canpakes]

I believe it reduces a very complex matter to a boogeyman simplicity. But I don't believe you are willfully blind or cognitively impaired. Thanks for the post.

mikwut

‘Reducing complex matters to boogeyman simplicity’ is pretty much Trump’s only operating mode, and it has been so ever since he announced his candidacy. If you disagree with that, pick a topic, and we can examine this premise as it relates to that topic.

At some point, that relentlessly-applied tactic will have an effect on those that support his Presidency.

You seem to be arguing that Trump is incapable of having that effect.

[_Kevin Graham]

Kevin,

Sorry we disagree and you were not able to convince me. I take no umbrage.

You never came here to be convinced of anything. You already made your mind up based on some youtube clip.

Examples of words or phrases that can find themselves used by actual white supremacists. Such an overlap is not proof of what you claim and it is reckless to smear people and leaders with the use of such charged and horrible language without proof.

And your naïve dismissal of these overwhelming parallels doesn't negate what they truly are. Again, you asked for evidence and then seemed shocked and confused when you actually got it. Reducing it to just "words and phrases" as if we can expect these to just show up at any time, anywhere, is just silly. I'm comfortable knowing you're not convinced because you're still refusing to deal with any of the evidence. I'm still waiting for you to address the half dozen examples I produced which you were somehow unable to source, even after I did it for you.

It is seriously like accusing someone of being a pedophile and then making them prove they are not.

Actually its nothing like that at all.

That correlation doesn't equal cause or a directly logical connection to being a white supremacist, sorry it just doesn't. I wouldn't dare present it as evidence in Court. It is conspiratorial. It is circular. It is media driven.

No, it is established fact that there are certain talking points that originate and are driven by White Supremacist groups, and that those same points are then adopted by FOX News, who incidentally hosts many of the people who are white supremacists. This isn't circular, it is just an established fact.

Listen to how certain you are.

Yes, based on evidence. But its ok for you to be so certain the evidence doesn't say what it says.

When you do that you have to see things as supportive of your conclusion and your not open to the possibility of error.

That doesn't logically follow at all. If you had an argument to prove me wrong then you'd have presented it already. The fact is you have no idea what I am willing to bend on. But nothing negates the evidence that exists showing that the current President is a racist.

I was quite explicit that both sides of the media develop narratives that are false.

Which only means you've fallen for the nonsense that is constantly played out by so many people with intellectual laziness. Its just easier for them to say "“F” it, everyone does it, therefore no side does it right or wrong." There is a clear difference between FOX and CNN. You haven't even begun to make them equal, and everyone on this forum who has tried in the past has failed miserably. Trump is a racist because of what he says and does, not because of Leftwing media spin. Just an example, when Trump paid $100,000 for a full page AD in the NYT calling for the public execution of five black teens for a crime they didn't commit, that was grounds for suspicion that he could be racist. When he didn't pay for any other AD condemning white kids for rape, that strongly hinted that he was racist. But when DNA evidence exonerated the black teens and Trump to this day says they should be killed by the state, that proves he's a racist piece of crap beyond all reasonable doubt. Your problem is that you're not reasonable. You're reduced all media outlets - except for Russian funded youtube clips - to be nothing more than a mass conspiracy to set everyone up against one another.

I believe it to be nearly obvious to serious people that aren't invested in one side being true and the other false.

It is a belief you take on faith, which is why you don't want to "hash out" hundreds of examples that may prove you wrong.

My conspiracy theory? You are the one with a conspiracy theory that Trump and many of his associates are actual white supremacists

That isn't a conspiracy theory, it is an established fact. The conspiracy theory is what you propose and what Taibbi proposes when he asserts, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, that CNN and MSNBC at some point sat down at the table and decided to adopt FOX News's business model because its all about money and ratings. That's what a conspiracy theory is. Saying Trump and many of his associates are white supremacists requires no "conspiracy."

You are the one who has been charged to prove such hair raising allegation.

Which I have done, which you have ignored because you refuse to do the necessary legwork beyond clicking on on a youtube video.

If your saying the media being driven by the emergence of cable news ratings is a conspiracy well I guess I'm guilty

If you watched the video that's not all of what he said.

The errors in Russia conspiracy are so numerous I won't waste time debating that.

Of course you won't. But you'll waste everyone's time here with this long winded pretense of being interested in a discussion when in reality you're just trying to float one of your favorite youtube personalities. You could have done that without pretending to be interested in discussing evidence, by calling for evidence you then say you can't source or won't "hash out."

And you think ratings didn't drive that?

You don't seem to understand that just because true events drive ratings doesn't make them true. It doesn't make them to lie. Trump's administration is a dumpster fire that requires no lying by the media to drive that point home. In fact most of what they do is just let him shoot himself in the foot by quoting his own words in interviews, press conferences and tweets.

Independents don't appreciate heightened rhetoric and smearing from either side. What is my evidence when I accept FOX is ratings driven that CNN isn't?

CNN's ratings are down precisely because they host people like White Supremacists and Trump lackeys in an attempt to be more objective. This flies in the face of everything you say about them being simply ratings driven.

That isn't an evidenced or rational argument that is an emotional response.

Says the guy who asked for evidence only to say he couldn't look it up because it wasn't sourced, and then said he didn't have time to hash through it all because they're just words and phrases. Yeah, very serious.

[_canpakes]

Examples of words or phrases that can find themselves used by actual white supremacists. Such an overlap is not proof of what you claim and it is reckless to smear people and leaders with the use of such charged and horrible language without proof.

... Again, you asked for evidence and then seemed shocked and confused when you actually got it. Reducing it to just "words and phrases" as if we can expect these to just show up at any time, anywhere, is just silly.

mikwut, to KG’s point here - can you tell me how ideas and actions take root and proliferate?

[_Some Schmo]

I have done my own look into your thoughts that this white supremacist language equals white supremacy. I haven't been convinced by anything in your posts that because the use of language (or a word many times) is found to overlap with white supremacists makes someone a white supremacist.

Yes. Heaven forbid we should draw a reasonable conclusion from a cornucopia of evidence.

For example, someone who is currently against stopping illegal immigration, for a wall etc.. can use the word "invasion" all they want without being a white supremacist, in fact it can even go viral or take off but it doesn't make it so.

Can they use the word "invasion" to describe people fleeing violence their country and seeking asylum without at least being racist? When people talk about an invasion, they generally mean an attack, an invading army. Is that what asylum seekers really are?

If they aren't racist, what's the alternative? They're just damned stupid?

Without the fact that that person is in fact a member of some white supremacist organization or some other evidence to make such a charge it is simply reckless, foolish and giving into what I posted earlier.

Does someone have to call himself an alcoholic in order to be an alcoholic? Most alcoholics won't admit it. Do they have to have a club card that says they're an alcoholic before you'll believe it; otherwise, you're just being reckless?

Or can you observe them night after night drinking too much, similar to what alcoholics do, and reasonably think, yeah, they're probably an alcoholic.

By your logic, that's reckless.

Needing a simple answer to very complex human problems. I love america! I say that on the fourth of July, white supremacists say that. I am not a white supremacist. The logic is just horrible.

Yes. Your logic is horrible. You thought this was a reasonable enough analogy to post it.

[_EAllusion]

Mikwut’s argument here is getting dangerously close to when right-wing media celebs Diamond and Silk argued that you are calling the dictionary racist when you criticize Trump’s racist comments towards “the squad” because the words he used are also found in dictionaries.

The issue here is not a superficial overlapping of a few words. It’s the same terms used in the same rhetorical context. You can write most of the El Paso’ shooter’s manifesto simply by quoting Fox/Trump because the same white supremacist rhetoric is found in both places. To what’s being talked about here, fear of “demographic” replacement from invading foreigners is the ur-white supremacist concern. You name a white supremacist movement and you’ll find this motive as one of the central forces behind it. It’s a cop out to say it’s bad when Nazis talk about it, but fine when Republicans in power do.

[_Some Schmo]

Somehow, I suspect if Fox was trying to scare us with an invasion of Canadians from the north, their ratings might drop.

[_Kevin Graham]

Mikwut’s argument here is getting dangerously close to when right-wing media celebs Diamond and Silk argued that you are calling the dictionary racist when you criticize Trump’s racist comments towards “the squad” because the words he used are also found in dictionaries.

The issue here is not a superficial overlapping of a few words. It’s the same terms used in the same rhetorical context. You can write most of the El Paso’ shooter’s manifesto simply by quoting Fox/Trump because the same white supremacist rhetoric is found in both places. To what’s being talked about here, fear of “demographic” replacement from invading foreigners is the ur-white supremacist concern. You name a white supremacist movement and you’ll find this motive as one of the central forces behind it. It’s a cop out to say it’s bad when Nazis talk about it, but fine when Republicans in power do.

Exactly, and I don't know why this is so hard for him to understand. Its not as if we need to decipher this stuff from their remarks based on a couple of words. Ingram and Carlson are CONSTANTLY talking about race and how immigration is transforming American culture into something bad. How is this not white supremacist rhetoric?

They're not just talking about how illegal immigration is criminal therefore they need to be deported. They take it to several levels above that and in recent years we've discovered a direct correlation between their rhetoric and that which has been posted on notorious white supremacist blogs. This crap travels from 8Chan level sewage, to Sean Hannity, to Trump, to Trump's tweets.

[_EAllusion]

The primary conspiracy theory of classic Naziism was that wealthy, cosmopolitan Jewish leaders were using their wealth and power to import foreigners into the German homeland, and that these foreigners were inherently inferior people who were disrupting the German culture, leading to social breakdown, and, if unchecked, ruin of society. The Jews were doing this to foment leftist takeover of society.

This is different than what is literally broadcast on Fox News routinely wherein liberal cosmopolitans are said to import inferior foreigners to the American homeland that are leading to the breakdown of native culture and society in order to foment leftist takeover in that:

1) While wealthy Jewish financier George Soros is semi-frequently proposed as a mastermind behind this, there is less focus on wealthy Jews generally as puppet masters manipulating the threads of the social order to threaten the purity of society.

2) It's not in German.