Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

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_moksha
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _moksha »

Exiled wrote:Isn't the actual content of the emails where the focus should be, instead of the messenger?

No, the entire concept of a hostile foreign power stealing information to influence an American Presidential campaign overshadows everything. Trying to damage America by saddling it with a leader who does Russian bidding through dividing its citizens and weakening alliances with our allies is of utmost concern.
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_canpakes
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _canpakes »

Exiled wrote:If I want better health care, better wages, more money in the hands of consumers, it is not because Russia told me so. If I want our troops to come home and to shutter our innumerable military bases abroad, this isn't because of Russia.

Good for you. Unfortunately for a large part of America and it’s citizens, advertising works to do just what you are saying it doesn’t do. Specifically, advertising works to tell you what you want, and who or what will get you what you want. Call me crazy, sure, but this advertising seems to be a major driver and presence in virtually every minute of every aspect of our modern consumer society.

If several Russian trolls create content on Facebook or elsewhere that goes on to be reposted or retweeted a few million times, then they’re essentially trying to sell you and the rest of the population on something that benefits themselves, and they’re doing it through millions of advertisements initiated via a nearly nonexistent financial expenditure. And it’s working as planned because this content is being reposted and retweeted a few million times. There’s your proof of ‘the sell’. That is what has happened, and what will continue to happen, even if folks continue to pretend that such influence isn’t occurring.

And before you come back with another claim that this isn’t how the world works, ask yourself why you ever, say, stepped into a McDonalds for the first time.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Some Schmo »

Exiled wrote:The intelligence agencies, who lied us into vietnam, has US media assets as per the Church committee in the 70's, lied to us regarding iran/contra, lied to us regarding the USSR capabilities in the 80's, lied to us in iraq I, lied about weapons of mass destruction for iraq II, won't tell us how they know about Russian interference because of the convenient "national security" excuse. I just don't trust them.

Well then, it totally makes sense that you trust the Russia more. The Kremlin and their intelligence agencies never lie! Amiright?

Wow. Now I can sleep at night. Thanks Exiled.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Exiled wrote:I'll take the above advice to heart. Those Russians are everywhere, if one looks hard enough. Beware, oh Beware!


It’s been exhaustively documented. From Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... g/ewrptoe/

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Exiled wrote:I'll take the above advice to heart. Those Russians are everywhere, if one looks hard enough. Beware, oh Beware!


It’s been exhaustively documented. From Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... g/ewrptoe/

- Doc


I am sure the Russians pursue their interests just like Israel, Saudi Arabia, Great Brittan, Australia, etc. etc. Probably all the major countries on earth have spies here, trying to pursue their interests. We do the same thing. We played an important part in the Ukrainian elections during Obama in order to install a less friendly government to Russia. We meddle in Central America and South America all the time. All countries do it. But how pervasive do you think the Russian meddling is now? I have a hard time believing that in 2016 spending a little over $100,000.00 on ads where $1.3 Billion was spent had much of an influence. The election was a low turnout election that Clinton should have won. Trump lied (surprise, right) about being a populist and against the wars and enough people in key states voted him in. Let's focus on pocketbook issues and stopping the wars so Trump gets defeated this time. People won't fall for his rhetoric if the election is about the real issues. Russiagate is dying. It's turning people off. Mueller's testimony was a dud and it gave the Repos a chance to do a jujitsu move and start a counter investigation. Time to give it up and focus on what the people want - health care, better jobs, less war.

Anyway, where is the evidence that Russia was behind the latest anti-Clinton memes? Rubio says so and end of story?

I think the media is exaggerating the Russian threat, just like they did back in the 1980's when the old USSR was nearing collapse. It generates ratings. It is good for the $Trillion defense industry to have enemies so the Democrats can give Putin Puppet Trump as many missiles and nukes as he wants. Resist Trump because he is crazy, yet give him more defense spending so the crazy man can follow Israel's lead and start a war with Iran and continue the war in Syria. If anything, Israel is the country we should examine. Although, I tread lightly when talking about Israel because of the prohibition of criticizing anything the right wing Israeli government does.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_canpakes
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _canpakes »

Exiled wrote: I have a hard time believing that in 2016 spending a little over $100,000.00 on ads where $1.3 Billion was spent had much of an influence.

It’s bizarre that you keep pretending that such a thing as retweets and reposts don’t exist within platforms that are essentially dependent upon and built around them, and that these actions really don’t virally amplify one single item possibly a million-fold... making moot the comment about how $100K must be a meaningless amount ... when in fact it could have more impact than $1 billion spent on conventional media approaches.

It’s as if you want to claim that the phrase “going viral” really has no meaning and no example in the real world. As if it exists for no known reason, for anything, paid for or freely posted without cost.

So, what’s up with you continually turning a blind eye to that reality? It’s not like we haven’t known about how this works since the earliest examples of LolCat memes. You have seen one of those, right? How on earth did that happen? o_0

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_Dr Exiled
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Dr Exiled »

These are some of the memes that supposedly threw the election to Trump.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvn433/facebook-memes-russia-election

https://slate.com/technology/2017/11/here-are-the-facebook-posts-russia-used-to-meddle-in-the-2016-election.html

I don't think these affected much against the hundreds of millions spent by Clinton. Yes, memes get passed along and half the spending by these Russian companies happened after the election. Perhaps these Ruskies are election prodigies? Their memes were so effective and Clinton, whose negatives are huge and people don't like her, was powerless against them? Don't you think Comey's about face, right before the election, a move that validated the lock her up memes the Trump campaign was pushing, affected the election in a huge way? I don't know but maybe he is Russian?

Do you really think these memes from Russian clickbait companies is what made Clinton lose? But for, she would have won? Don't you think her unpopularity and corporate/war leanings had a bigger affect? It was a low turnout election as well (probably because Clinton cannot inspire like Sanders). And she was caught rigging the election with the mainstream media to steal the nomination.

Anyway, I was friends with a local Democratic Nevada State senator and watched the election with a bunch of Nevada Clinton Campaign operatives. They all blamed Comey and disaffected Bernie supporters for the loss, for what it is worth. And looking at the facts, this seems more likely than the Russians.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_subgenius
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _subgenius »

Exiled wrote:These are some of the memes that supposedly threw the election to Trump.
...

wouldn't it be super cool if you could prove this?
instead of looking like a rube who doesn't even beleive Obama's investigation on the matter....super cool, yeah.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Some Schmo »

Exiled is a clear example of how Russian propaganda has been effective. He denies it works, so much so, it's not enough to stay silent (you know, to avoid playing right into Russia's hands on the off chance he's wrong). No... He's willing to step up and defend Russia's purported innocence.

I'm sure Putin loves what Exiled is about.
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_canpakes
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
Exiled wrote:These are some of the memes that supposedly threw the election to Trump.
...

wouldn't it be super cool if you could prove this?
instead of looking like a rube who doesn't even beleive Obama's investigation on the matter....super cool, yeah.

Cool. The guy who believes in the Clinton Kill List wants someone else to ‘prove’ something. : D
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