Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

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_honorentheos
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _honorentheos »

Exiled wrote:
honorentheos wrote:Yeah yeah, and 9/11 was an inside job. Cool.


Nice smear, just like a good mope would do. Perhaps the Dales could have used you on their side?

So, can I take the non-response as an admission that you know of no proof that Russian bots are supposedly behind the theories that the Clintons caused Epstein's demise somehow? And for all you know, Rubio is just making it up?

Do you think the Russians turned off the cameras? Maybe the Russians broke Epstein's neck and killed him in an elaborate plot to frame the Clintons?

Also, I would love to hear your take on the Clinton dress picture. Perhaps Epstein had a secret love interest? Maybe you can figure out how the Russians are involved, because no doubt they are. I mean that dress picture has to be causing a lot of discord, just like Putin wants.

I don't think the Epstein thing is heavily Russian related in any way shape or form. I don't agree with moksha's OP. I don't know where Rubio got his information. More broadly, your denial of Russian influence and it's effectiveness is conspiracy theory level while relying on elements of their online propoganda efforts mostly around Sanders and Clinton. So the topic in general is a dumpster fire when you join in. If saying that makes me an apologist for something, cool whatever.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
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_Dr Exiled
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Dr Exiled »

[/quote]I don't think the Epstein thing is heavily Russian related in any way shape or form. I don't agree with moksha's OP. I don't know where Rubio got his information. More broadly, your denial of Russian influence and it's effectiveness is conspiracy theory level while relying on elements of their online propoganda efforts mostly around Sanders and Clinton. So the topic in general is a dumpster fire when you join in. If saying that makes me an apologist for something, cool whatever.[/quote]

Dumpster fire? Really? So, how persuasive was the Russian influence on the 2016 election? Have there been any studies done or is it just media speculation? Is it more like the Dales or something more substantive? I am unaware of any studies on the effectiveness of the Russians campaign of discord, only that there were some Russian companies that used some memes that were already in the ether as it were and I am aware of the mainstream media's desire to paint Trump as a Russian stooge.

So where is the proof?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Gray Ghost
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Gray Ghost »

Exiled wrote:
Gray Ghost wrote:Exiled seems to have drunk deeply from the Russian tea.


That must be it! Help me! I didn't realize that questioning the mainstream media narratives must make me Russian. No matter how weak their accusations are, I will not question that Russia is behind all the discord in this country any longer! Surely people cannot think for themselves.

I wonder how pervasive the Russian/Discord operation is? Has it reached the family court yet? Let me know when you have proof of that because that would explain a lot.


You still being in denial about the reality of the Wikileaks op doesn't help your case much either. Information warfare works. You are one of its victims.
_Themis
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Themis »

Exiled wrote:So, can I take the non-response as an admission that you know of no proof that Russian bots are supposedly behind the theories that the Clintons caused Epstein's demise somehow? And for all you know, Rubio is just making it up?


Could be. Not aware of the evidence due to maybe some of it not being available for me to see or don't have the time and expertise to look it up as others might. I would think Rubio is likely telling the truth since his information goes against republican agenda's. I would be more skeptical when a politicians claims fit their political agenda's perfectly as so many of Trump's claims do. The reason I think the Russian's are very involved in trying to manipulate people and attack western liberalism all around the world is because the people in the know are telling us this and we see it from different sides of the political spectrum and from many different countries.
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_subgenius
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _subgenius »

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_honorentheos
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _honorentheos »

Exiled wrote:
Dumpster fire? Really? So, how persuasive was the Russian influence on the 2016 election? Have there been any studies done or is it just media speculation? Is it more like the Dales or something more substantive? I am unaware of any studies on the effectiveness of the Russians campaign of discord, only that there were some Russian companies that used some memes that were already in the ether as it were and I am aware of the mainstream media's desire to paint Trump as a Russian stooge.

So where is the proof?

I guess Mueller having to be willing to perjure himself in his testimonies to the House committees by unequivocally confirming all the evidence you've had shared over however long including in this thread carries some weight and hasn't been pointed out to you. But I know, you are open if someone would just present compelling evidence and we shouldn't care what the source is if information is accurate and besides we need to focus on getting a left wing progressive socialist elected so...
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Some Schmo »

It's been pointed out before. Sally Yates, Bob Mueller, and James Clapper, to name a few, are not part of the mainstream media.

Course, they were part of our intelligence agencies who only lie to us, so we need to rely on those honest Russians to tell us what's what.

This reminds me of the argument over climate change. It's much worse if one side is wrong over the other. The side in denial is full of irresponsible assholes.
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_honorentheos
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _honorentheos »

People will say many things off the cuff that they become much more circumspect about when under oath and at risk of committing perjury. Mueller, while under oath, was emphatic that the Russians were at work in 2016 seeking to influence the American Presidential elections, they were doing it today, and it was a legitimate threat. Exiled, being a lawyer, ought to realize that a former head of the FBI being willing to state this under oath before two congressional committees carries meaningful weight.
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_Dr Exiled
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Dr Exiled »

honorentheos wrote:People will say many things off the cuff that they become much more circumspect about when under oath and at risk of committing perjury. Mueller, while under oath, was emphatic that the Russians were at work in 2016 seeking to influence the American Presidential elections, they were doing it today, and it was a legitimate threat. Exiled, being a lawyer, ought to realize that a former head of the FBI being willing to state this under oath before two congressional committees carries meaningful weight.


Being under oath should mean something, although, I have been a part of too many cases where the oath is virtually meaningless, given the reluctance to hold people in contempt.

Also, Mueller was a point man during the run up to the Iraq War. He loved non-existant weapons of mass destruction and the fear they generated and told congress all about it.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Kremlin yanks Trump's leash

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Links and better formatting are available to those who click on the link. I’m not bothering this time because I know with every fiber of my being the assholes who need to read this, won’t.

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/ ... d/ex23dum/


[–]lookatthesource 32 points 13 hours ago*
No collusion and no obstruction were literally spelled out in the report you guys took 2yrs to write
Not sure why I even bother responding to people like you. No amount of education will work, but anyways:
Read the 14 points below and then tell me what you think
Guide to the Mueller Report’s Findings on “Collusion”
I. Summary of Major Findings
The redacted Mueller Report documents a series of activities that show strong evidence of collusion. Or, more precisely, it provides significant evidence that Trump Campaign associates coordinated with, cooperated with, encouraged, or gave support to the Russia/WikiLeaks election interference activities. The Report documents the following actions (each of which is analyzed in detail in Part II):
Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin.
Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails.
The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared internal polling data and information on battleground states with a Russian spy; and the Campaign chairman worked with the Russian spy on a pro-Russia “peace” plan for Ukraine.
The Trump Campaign chairman periodically shared internal polling data with the Russian spy with the expectation it would be shared with Putin-linked oligarch, Oleg Deripaska.
Trump Campaign chairman Manafort expected Trump’s winning the presidency would mean Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance Deripaska’s interests in the United States and elsewhere.
Trump Tower meeting: (1) On receiving an email offering derogatory information on Clinton coming from a Russian government official, Donald Trump Jr. “appears to have accepted that offer;” (2) members of the Campaign discussed the Trump Tower meeting beforehand; (3) Donald Trump Jr. told the Russians during the meeting that Trump could revisit the issue of the Magnitsky Act if elected.
A Trump Campaign official told the Special Counsel he “felt obliged to object” to a GOP Platform change on Ukraine because it contradicted Trump’s wishes; however, the investigation did not establish that Gordon was directed by Trump.
Russian military hackers may have followed Trump’s July 27, 2016 public statement “Russia if you’re listening …” within hours by targeting Clinton’s personal office for the first time.
Trump requested campaign affiliates to get Clinton’s emails, which resulted in an individual apparently acting in coordination with the Campaign claiming to have successfully contacted Russian hackers.
The Trump Campaign—and Trump personally—appeared to have advanced knowledge of future WikiLeaks releases.
The Trump Campaign coordinated campaign-related public communications based on future WikiLeaks releases.
Michael Cohen, on behalf of the Trump Organization, brokered a secret deal for a Trump Tower Moscow project directly involving Putin’s inner circle, at least until June 2016.
During the presidential transition, Jared Kushner and Eric Prince engaged in secret back channel communications with Russian agents. (1) Kushner suggested to the Russian Ambassador that they use a secure communication line from within the Russian Embassy to speak with Russian Generals; and (2) Prince and Kushner’s friend Rick Gerson conducted secret back channel meetings with a Putin agent to develop a plan for U.S.-Russian relations.
During the presidential transition, in coordination with other members of the Transition Team, Michael Flynn spoke with the Russian Ambassador to prevent a tit for tat Russian response to the Obama administration’s imposition of sanctions for election interference; the Russians agreed not to retaliate saying they wanted a good relationship with the incoming administration.
During the course of 2016, Trump Campaign associates failed to report any of the Russian/WikiLeaks overtures to federal law enforcement, publicly denied any contacts with Russians/WikiLeaks, and actively encouraged the public to doubt that Russia was behind the hacking and distribution of stolen emails.
One qualification before proceeding to the analysis in Part II: a significant amount of relevant information was unavailable to Mueller due to four factors. First, as the Report states, “several individuals affiliated with the Trump Campaign lied to the Office,” and “those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian election interference.” Second, President Trump’s interference in the investigation also appears to have stymied the investigation. A key example is Paul Manafort’s failure to cooperate with the Special Counsel because he was apparently led to believe that President Trump would pardon him. Third, some individuals used encrypted communications or deleted their communications. Fourth, some of the individuals who “cooperated” with the investigation (e.g., Steve Bannon) appear to have been deceptive or not fully forthcoming in their dealings with the Special Counsel. Several individuals failed to recall the content of important conversations with Trump or other Campaign associates. The Report states, “Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes provided information that was false or incomplete.”
“several individuals affiliated with the Trump Campaign lied to the Office,” and “those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian election interference.”
That last part is a nice segue into the obstruction charges, because that IS obstruction:
The 10 episodes of potential Trump obstruction listed in the Mueller report
The President Asks Intelligence Community Leaders to Make Public Statements that he had No Connection to Russia
The President Asks Comey to "Lift the Cloud" Created by the Russia Investigation
Events Leading Up To and Surrounding the Termination of FBI Director Comey
The President Makes the Decision to Terminate Comey
The President's Efforts to Remove the Special Counsel
The President Asserts that the Special Counsel has Conflicts of Interest
The Press Reports that the President is Being Investigated for Obstruction of Justice and the President Directs the White House Counsel to Have the Special Counsel Removed
The President's Efforts to Curtail the Special Counsel's Investigation
The President Asks Corey Lewandowski to Deliver a Message to Sessions to Curtail the Special Counsel Investigation
The President Follows Up with Lewandowski
The President Orders Priebus to Demand Sessions's Resignation
The President's Efforts to Prevent Disclosure of Emails About the June 9, 2016 Meeting Between Russians and Senior Campaign Officials
The President Directs Communications Staff Not to Publicly Disclose Information About the June 9 Meeting
The President Directs Trump Jr.'s Response to Press Inquiries About the June 9 Meeting
Trump dictated lies about the Trump Tower meeting.
The President's Further Efforts to Have the Attorney General Take Over the Investigation
The President Again Seeks to Have Sessions Reverse his Recusal
The President Orders McGahn to Deny that the President Tried to Fire the Special Counsel
The President Seeks to Have McGahn Dispute the Press Reports
The President's Conduct Towards Flynn, Manafort, [REDACTED DUE TO ONGOING MATTER]
Conduct Directed at Michael Flynn Conduct Directed at Paul Manafort Conduct Directed at [REDACTED]
The President's Conduct Involving Michael Cohen
The President Sends Messages of Support to Cohen
The President's Conduct After Cohen Began Cooperating with the Government
You can read about all of these in more detail (you won't, I know) here
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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