Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:For people who claim to hate this place they sure do spend a lot of time looking in on it and commenting on the posts here. They're the ones primarily responsible for mucking up their own board with commentary about this board. It's psychologically fascinating.
- Doc
God needs the Shadow. It cannot be gotten rid of without getting rid of God. So that is why Sic et Non sees the light from this site as a hate site, to the devil, all light is hate. God and the devil are truly the very best of friends having a ball putting on a terrific show playing it up all the time. In fact, God and the devil are truly One. Otherwise, there really is nothing real. This is where the East definitely has one up on the West.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:For people who claim to hate this place they sure do spend a lot of time looking in on it and commenting on the posts here. They're the ones primarily responsible for mucking up their own board with commentary about this board. It's psychologically fascinating.
- Doc
One might call it pathological.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
To be fair, the nasty back and forth feud does appear to be decades old and I cannot claim to have read every comment on this board or on SeN. So I can’t say if there is hate speech or evidence of a “cesspit” or not. My experience as a reader of both boards for quite some time affirms a healthy dose of anger, frustration, suspicion and callousness by parties on both sides. And it also affirms some really good people and interesting ideas. From both camps.
Dan and his friends could do a better job with civility and respect while pursuing their worthy efforts in defending their faith. Both on SeN and elsewhere.
Some people on this board could also do a better job with civility and respect. And some...ha... could really do a better job of simply not posting while [in a terrible mood]!
I’m no perfect saint either. These types of discussions stir up passions quickly. Even after just 23 posts at SeN, I managed to offend quite a few folks. Lesson learned.
When I am wrong, I try to learn from it, admit it and improve. That’s a life skill worthy of a lifelong effort. I think it should be gospel for everyone from atheists to ardent Latter-day Saints.
And you have all seen me apologize to Dan and Louis without reservations. That isn’t fun or easy. But it’s something I believe in.
It may be too much, after the decades of battle scars, to ask for apologies in return. I’m going to do that anyway. I think it is one of the best things for any soul.
Dan accused me of lying in my original post in which I, honestly, assessed the Prying into Palmer essay as a character assassination or hit piece. I was not lying in that assessment. Everything in my lived experience tells me that is what the author of that paper intended. I could write for days about why, but that too would be unproductive. Subsequent posts by Dan and Louis have totally confirmed what my mind and heart told me the first time I read the paper.
So Dan, you do owe me an apology for accusing me of dishonesty in that instance.
And Louis, you also called me a liar for the same reasons. I believe you too should apologize in the spirit of respect and civility.
Kiwi57/Pahoran, you owe me two apologies - one for accusing me of lying about my post, as above, and one for accusing me of lying about being banned. The screen said I was. I thought it was real. I told the truth. You called me a liar.
But what can I say. You three have a taken a lot of body blows and cheap shots over the years. I get that. It’s hard to give a perceived enemy any credit for trying.
So here’s the deal I’m offering.
Dan, if you will apologize without reservation for calling me a liar, as explained above, I will donate $1,000 to a charitable organization of your choice. I will send it via certified cashiers check within one week, drawn on a domestic bank, and send photographic proof.
Louis, same deal.
Kiwi/Pahoran, same deal times two. $1,000 for each.
And if the three of you would agree to eliminate the terms “hate site” and “cesspool” and other similarly provocative epithets about the MormonDiscussions board and its heterogeneous membership, and hold good to that deal for 6 months, then I will further donate $10,000 to a charity of Dan’s choice.
Perhaps you may find this offer offensive. I mean it to show seriousness about my belief that these personal attacks should stop, on all sides. I believe all of you (at MD and at SeN) have something to offer but it’s completely and utterly pointless, what I’ve witnessed here lurking for almost a year, in the context of debating the facts underpinning the ultimate truth - which is that we all, quite literally, share a connection as brothers and sisters.
Your call guys.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dr Moore wrote:To be fair, the nasty back and forth feud does appear to be decades old and I cannot claim to have read every comment on this board or on SeN. So I can’t say if there is hate speech or evidence of a “cesspit” or not. My experience as a reader of both boards for quite some time affirms a healthy dose of anger, frustration, suspicion and callousness by parties on both sides. And it also affirms some really good people and interesting ideas. From both camps.
Dan and his friends could do a better job with civility and respect while pursuing their worthy efforts in defending their faith. Both on SeN and elsewhere.
Some people on this board could also do a better job with civility and respect. And some...ha... could really do a better job of simply not posting while inebriated!
I’m no perfect saint either. These types of discussions stir up passions quickly. Even after just 23 posts at SeN, I managed to offend quite a few folks. Lesson learned.
When I am wrong, I try to learn from it, admit it and improve. That’s a life skill worthy of a lifelong effort. I think it should be gospel for everyone from atheists to ardent Latter-day Saints.
And you have all seen me apologize to Dan and Louis without reservations. That isn’t fun or easy. But it’s something I believe in.
It may be too much, after the decades of battle scars, to ask for apologies in return. I’m going to do that anyway. I think it is one of the best things for any soul.
Dan accused me of lying in my original post in which I, honestly, assessed the Prying into Palmer essay as a character assassination or hit piece. I was not lying in that assessment. Everything in my lived experience tells me that is what the author of that paper intended. I could write for days about why, but that too would be unproductive. Subsequent posts by Dan and Louis have totally confirmed what my mind and heart told me the first time I read the paper.
So Dan, you do owe me an apology for accusing me of dishonesty in that instance.
And Louis, you also called me a liar for the same reasons. I believe you too should apologize in the spirit of respect and civility.
Kiwi57/Pahoran, you owe me two apologies - one for accusing me of lying about my post, as above, and one for accusing me of lying about being banned. The screen said I was. I thought it was real. I told the truth. You called me a liar.
But what can I say. You three have a taken a lot of body blows and cheap shots over the years. I get that. It’s hard to give a perceived enemy any credit for trying.
So here’s the deal I’m offering.
Dan, if you will apologize without reservation for calling me a liar, as explained above, I will donate $1,000 to a charitable organization of your choice. I will send it via certified cashiers check within one week, drawn on a domestic bank, and send photographic proof.
Louis, same deal.
Kiwi/Pahoran, same deal times two. $1,000 for each.
And if the three of you would agree to eliminate the terms “hate site” and “cesspool” and other similarly provocative epithets about the MormonDiscussions board and its heterogeneous membership, and hold good to that deal for 6 months, then I will further donate $10,000 to a charity of Dan’s choice.
Perhaps you may find this offer offensive. I mean it to show seriousness about my belief that these personal attacks should stop, on all sides. I believe all of you (at MD and at SeN) have something to offer but it’s completely and utterly pointless, what I’ve witnessed here lurking for almost a year, in the context of debating the facts underpinning the ultimate truth - which is that we all, quite literally, share a connection as brothers and sisters.
Your call guys.
Maybe start your own thread for this, Dr Moore.
Also, I have a real problem with accusing people of being impaired due to alcohol consumption when they post. As a way to object to their posts, I am aware it is fair game here to imply that, but given you literally have no way of knowing the circumstances of a particular poster, I find it to be among the most despicable of ad hom attacks.
Especially considering the all too common Mormon approach to exmormon drinking, which is the accusation that if you don’t follow the WoW, you’re an alcoholic. That’s a ridiculous Mormon myth, and it deserves no place here, or anywhere.
Fair enough Lemmie! I was referring to a single poster who Shades, lightheartedly, asked not to post while drunk. I’m happy to edit that out as you make a good meta point.
Also, to that poster, Shulem, I don’t know you but I do love you man. I feel your pain. Offer an e-hug and meant zero disrespect.
Dr Moore wrote:Fair enough Lemmie! I was referring to a single poster who Shades, lightheartedly, asked not to post while drunk. I’m happy to edit that out as you make a good meta point.
Also, to that poster, Shulem, I don’t know you but I do love you man. I feel your pain. Offer an e-hug and meant zero disrespect.
No worries. Being inebriated can be a lot of fun at times.
Dr Moore wrote:Fair enough Lemmie! I was referring to a single poster who Shades, lightheartedly, asked not to post while drunk. I’m happy to edit that out as you make a good meta point.
Also, to that poster, Shulem, I don’t know you but I do love you man. I feel your pain. Offer an e-hug and meant zero disrespect.
Shulem is a good man, Dr. Moore. That said, some of us have been reading each other for decades. We know what it looks like when some folks are PUI. Shades is one of them who detects it. In any instance where I've mentioned a poster PUI, they've confirmed it either publicly or privately. Some of us know each other very well.
I don't PUI because I don't drink. There are days when I wish that I did! ;-) So whatever comes out of my keyboard is entirely clean and sober, which is pretty darn scary some days!
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Yea, no. I’m not talking about the butterflies and rainbow versions, i’m talking about how much I dislike posts like the one that triggered this:
Kevin Graham wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:I don't know if I have your attention now or if you shut down. I guess either way is good. I'm going to say some stuff in front of God and everybody. I'm too old to be embarrassed, maybe you are too.
You are an intelligent man, Kevin. You are reasonable, rational, you are strong, healthy, you are well educated, and you are handsome. You have done so well for yourself in life. You are passionate about your family and I know it. Your family is so beautiful.
That said, there isn't a person on this board who follows you who doesn't know when you're drinking and posting. When you do that, all of the above fades away. I don't know which comes first, the drinking or the ruminating. Maybe they come at the same time.
Kevin, you have it all.
Please try not to do this to yourself. You have far too much going for you and so much to be proud of.
I'm not even sure how to interpret this post. I made one confession about being less than sober ONE night, and suddenly you're going to treat me like I'm an alcoholic who is throwing away his life by posting politics on a religious forum? Sigh... you don't know jack Jersey Girl. I'm pretty sure I explained this before, but I rarely drink. Before than night it was New Years and it took my first Martini ever to knock my ass out because I have such a low tolerance for alcohol. That night I said I was less than sober, I had maybe three shots of Crown black (the only alcohol we have and the same bottle that has been in our kitchen cabinet for more than a year and is still half full) because I was trying to go to sleep. I don't think I was "drunk," but at the same time I didn't have the will or mental stamina to clearly explain what it was I was trying to say in that thread after people starting missing the point. You were reading too much into it and I was at the point that i didn't even care, until the next day.
So from now on I'll be Kevin the Wino in your minds. Beautiful.
Lemmie wrote:(sorry, Jersey Girl, yours is just the first one that came up when I searched, I know there are many more.)
Or the thread where Mentalgymnast said he had no way of knowing if another poster was on his second six-pack, etc, etc, etc.
So I say again, I feel accusing someone of being impaired when they post is a personal attack that is inappropriate.
Yes, I praised him in order to personally attack him.
See this that I wrote above?
That said, some of us have been reading each other for decades. We know what it looks like when some folks are PUI. Shades is one of them who detects it. In any instance where I've mentioned a poster PUI, they've confirmed it either publicly or privately. Some of us know each other very well.
What you're looking at there is a dialogue between two people who have been friends for nearly 2 decades, taking it out of context and you don't know if the exchanges ended on that thread or via PM's that day or the day after and so forth.
I am sure you could have found more such posts from others (maybe one or two?) by following that very same thread.
Seriously, you obsess over crap that you know nothing about and relationships that you don't understand. You in a group that formed long before you found us and for some of us, before this board ever took it's first breath.
Search on the phrase "You're drunk go home" or simply sift through Telestial and find Shades instinctive warnings to Shulem. No rainbows or butterflies anywhere, I'm afraid. People who know each other is what it is.
And believe it or not, we're all friends. :-)
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Seriously, you obsess over crap that you know nothing about and relationships that you don't understand. You in a group that formed long before you found us and for some of us, before this board ever took it's first breath.
Everytime I have an opinion about the board that you disagree with, you pull out the “you haven’t been here long enough to understand” card. You’re the one with the obsession, friend.
