MDB Bible Study

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Tell that to Jersey Girl; I already know that, homeslice.




- Doc

[_Lemmie]

Hindsight - A precious thing.

Announcing my prayer on the board was obviously a poor decision on my part. My sincere apologies to any/all that I have offended by doing such.

Ok, thanks. But I don’t think you get my point, since you followed up with this:

Ceeboo:

As a single Bible believing Christian, I am fairly confident that I can speak for millions and millions of Bible believing Christians when I say the following:

We are all in desperate need of a savior (All of us) It is clearly written all over the Bible.

Ok. I am fairly confident that you are in desperate need of knowledge, so I will resume my very, very serious thinking about you learning evolution.

[_honorentheos]

Hi ceebs,

Regarding John 3:16, what does the word "perish" mean in that scripture? Or, put another way, what exactly is the world in danger of were it not for Jesus per that verse?

[_Ceeboo]

Hey honor

Hi ceebs,

Regarding John 3:16, what does the word "perish" mean in that scripture? Or, put another way, what exactly is the world in danger of were it not for Jesus per that verse?

Perish means to die in our sins. If not for Jesus, the world (all of us) will face the Ultimate Authority/Judge with our rejection of God's Authority in place. That's the danger.

[_canpakes]

Hindsight - A precious thing.

Announcing my prayer on the board was obviously a poor decision on my part. My sincere apologies to any/all that I have offended by doing such.

Hey, Ceebs -

Regardless of my earlier post about general attitudes, you’d actually have to work a lot harder than that to offend me. : )

[_Chap]

... the world (all of us) will face the Ultimate Authority/Judge with our rejection of God's Authority in place. That's the danger.

Yup. And your deity really hates it if any of the tiny little ephemeral insects he created dares to wonder whether he deserves all that grovelling respect and flattery, or even to doubt whether he exists at all. Anyone like that will be eternally swatted.

I mean, what kind of a vindictive and insecure entity does this make him? Yeah, you say he sent his son to get killed so he wouldn't have to zap all us unbelievers. And that is supposed to make him sound nicer?

Fortunately, It's all a sinister fairy tale. I'm so glad it's not true. Frankly, I'd much rather us humans were alone in the universe rather than having to live under the thumb of a deity like yours.

[_honorentheos]

Hey honor

Hi ceebs,

Regarding John 3:16, what does the word "perish" mean in that scripture? Or, put another way, what exactly is the world in danger of were it not for Jesus per that verse?

Perish means to die in our sins. If not for Jesus, the world (all of us) will face the Ultimate Authority/Judge with our rejection of God's Authority in place. That's the danger.

Thanks for the reply, ceebs.

As I understand it, the Greek used in that verse carries the connotation of destruction or being exposed to a destructive force. That seems consistent with the second part of your comment that the danger the world and all of humanity faces is destruction from God's judgement.

Now this makes for a weird condition, in my opinion. According to John 3, we are exposed to destruction by God's judgement, but the purpose of Jesus is to provide a means of salvation from God's destructive judgement rather than condemnation because God loves the world enough to offer a means of avoiding his judgement and the resulting destruction.

So let's say we subtract God from that. No God's judgement, no wrath, no destruction. Sure, no divine love or promise of eternal life either. But minus God those verses have no promise and thereby no meaning.

It seems that the problem arises from buying into the belief system that then creates a certain debt that God has provided a means of repayment by Jesus on the believer's behalf...but God initiated the debt to begin with. Sounds like a bad deal.

I posit that the appeal of this structure comes to some people who feel a need to have divine love or the promise that death isn't the end. If one isn't interested in buying that, there's no reason to sign up.

[_Ceeboo]

As I understand it, the Greek used in that verse carries the connotation of destruction or being exposed to a destructive force. That seems consistent with the second part of your comment that the danger the world and all of humanity faces is destruction from God's judgement.

Now this makes for a weird condition, in my opinion. According to John 3, we are exposed to destruction by God's judgement, but the purpose of Jesus is to provide a means of salvation from God's destructive judgement rather than condemnation because God loves the world enough to offer a means of avoiding his judgement and the resulting destruction.

Thanks for your perspective.

Here is my perspective: The condition isn't weird, it's a condition that's fractured/broken. The people and the world have been, currently are, and continue to be fractured/broken. God has provided his own means (Jesus on the cross) to renew/repair/fix the human condition (a.k.a. - Living a life separated from God with a sin problem). The evidence of this can be seen in the unexplainable and radical transformations of millions of people by the miraculous Power and Grace of the Holy Spirit (God). They live with new minds (how they think) and new hearts (new desires) not for their glory - nor for their testimony - but by and for the Glory of God and to testify to God's Grace and for God's praise.

So let's say we subtract God from that. No God's judgement, no wrath, no destruction. Sure, no divine love or promise of eternal life either. But minus God those verses have no promise and thereby no meaning.

If you subtract God, obviously the verses have no meaning.

It seems that the problem arises from buying into the belief system that then creates a certain debt that God has provided a means of repayment by Jesus on the believer's behalf...but God initiated the debt to begin with. Sounds like a bad deal.

God didn't initiate the debt. The sin of man and rejection of God (The very same sin of man and rejection of God that exists today) is what brought about sin. The wages of sin is death - God initiated the wages.

As far as sounding like a bad deal goes - I personally can't imagine a better deal. To simply accept an entirely free gift that you did nothing to receive - then be showered with more and more love and grace from God that you have done nothing to earn or deserve. A bad deal? I guess that depends entirely upon personal perspective.

I posit that the appeal of this structure comes to some people who feel a need to have divine love or the promise that death isn't the end. If one isn't interested in buying that, there's no reason to sign up.

I posit that you don't understand Biblical Christianity.

[_Jersey Girl]

Hey Jersey Girl

I wanted to mention another thing about your post that I didn't mention on my last reply to it.

Here's a portion of scripture that has virtually come to life to me in the past few weeks.

When I read your opening thoughts here, I thought of John 1 and how critically important John 1 ties in and relates in my opinion.

John 1:1-5 (New King James)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

So the Word is Jesus - and the Word was with God - and the Word was God - and Jesus is the light of men, and the Word created everything...…. Then when you say "a portion of scripture has virtually come to life for you"- To me, that not only makes perfect sense but it is the type of thing I would completely expect as a believer. It is also why believers (no matter how familiar they happen to be with the Bible) need to stay in the Word of God. in my opinion.

John 1 is my absolute favorite passage of scripture. Very deeply meaningful to me. :-)

Listen I'm going to hang back for a while here and hopefully will rejoin the discussion when I am better able to participate! I'll be sure to take up where we left off here because I still want to discuss spiritual warfare.

I'm not so sure how straight my head was on yesterday. I should probably be stringing beads holed up in a room somewhere right now. by the way, they're called Casa Beads.

:-)

[_Lemmie]

...the human condition (a.k.a. - Living a life separated from God with a sin problem)

i don’t see that as “the human condition”, but I can see that it arose from the thinking that honor pointed out:

It seems that the problem arises from buying into the belief system that then creates a certain debt that God has provided a means of repayment by Jesus on the believer's behalf...but God initiated the debt to begin with. Sounds like a bad deal.

I would have to agree. I see “the human condition” as an amazing opportunity to be alive and experience the world. That has the potential to bring joy all by itself.