Ceeboo wrote:The evidence of this can be seen in the unexplainable and radical transformations of millions of people by the miraculous Power and Grace of the Holy Spirit (God).
Lemmie wrote:i don’t see that as “the human condition”, but I can see that it arose from the thinking that honor pointed out:...the human condition (a.k.a. - Living a life separated from God with a sin problem)It seems that the problem arises from buying into the belief system that then creates a certain debt that God has provided a means of repayment by Jesus on the believer's behalf...but God initiated the debt to begin with. Sounds like a bad deal.
I would have to agree. I see “the human condition” as an amazing opportunity to be alive and experience the world. That has the potential to bring joy all by itself.
honorentheos wrote:Hi ceebs,
Perhaps you could share an example of the following that is inexplicable?Ceeboo wrote:The evidence of this can be seen in the unexplainable and radical transformations of millions of people by the miraculous Power and Grace of the Holy Spirit (God).
ETA: By which I mean a specific, discussable example rather than a general broad claim.
Lemmie wrote:i don’t see that as “the human condition”, but I can see that it arose from the thinking that honor pointed out:...the human condition (a.k.a. - Living a life separated from God with a sin problem)It seems that the problem arises from buying into the belief system that then creates a certain debt that God has provided a means of repayment by Jesus on the believer's behalf...but God initiated the debt to begin with. Sounds like a bad deal.
I would have to agree. I see “the human condition” as an amazing opportunity to be alive and experience the world. That has the potential to bring joy all by itself.
SteelHead wrote:When you have the same people that extensively studied the old mythology, writing the new mythology, we are supposed to be surprised that they write it so that it references and tries to fulfill the old?
And when they get it wrong? When there is 0 evidence for the global flood,...
moksha wrote:SteelHead wrote:When you have the same people that extensively studied the old mythology, writing the new mythology, we are supposed to be surprised that they write it so that it references and tries to fulfill the old?
And when they get it wrong? When there is 0 evidence for the global flood,...
Flood stories are part of humanities shared anxiety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXrfV_tDKFU
Lemmie wrote:i don’t see that as “the human condition”, but I can see that it arose from the thinking that honor pointed out:...the human condition (a.k.a. - Living a life separated from God with a sin problem)It seems that the problem arises from buying into the belief system that then creates a certain debt that God has provided a means of repayment by Jesus on the believer's behalf...but God initiated the debt to begin with. Sounds like a bad deal.
I would have to agree. I see “the human condition” as an amazing opportunity to be alive and experience the world. That has the potential to bring joy all by itself.
well said, thank you huckleberry. I hope I am understanding you correctly, as it seems you are acknowledging that this thinking lead to faith for you, but also that you see how for someone else it may not mean faith, per se, but still results in a common philosophy regarding life. In that sense, I feel we have much in common and I am grateful to have this opportunity to learn more about you.huckelberry wrote:"An amazing opportunity to be alive" This is a philosophic observation I remembering discovering at about age five. I certainly do not wish to demean the value of the observation by saying that it arrived when I was young. It has been excellent company for me for many decades now. It has permeated my life and I give thanks to God for that. Now I admit there have been times I have not believed a god to thank and could still derive great comfort for the gift of life which I did not earn but came to me completely gratis.
Some claim faith happens because people want to escape death. It is true that the beauty of life does push people toward such a hope. Myself I am unable to be sure enough of the time that I do not count on anything happening after death but I cannot escape the hope.
For me what invites faith is the meaning being thankful has for how I understand my relationship to the beauty and promise of life and the pain disappointment danger and emotional injuries which come with that gift of life. Faith illuminates the value of others , our relationships, my value and the value of others which ground the courage to deal with the ugly dimensions of life. Of course believers and unbelievers have access to those values, we are all products of the same ,,,,, or god.
Because I understand Christianity to be about how we treat others and ourselves. I understand the punishment of sin to be first and foremost the destruction of human and internal relationships that is sin. Of course to degrade the value of that primary value, the beauty of life,by sin is an affront to ourselves, neighbors and God. When John speaks of salvation it is from all of those destructive forces not just an arbitrary and grumpy god.
AMEN!....salvation ... from all of those destructive forces....
huckelberry wrote:
Because I understand Christianity to be about how we treat others and ourselves. I understand the punishment of sin to be first and foremost the destruction of human and internal relationships that is sin. Of course to degrade the value of that primary value, the beauty of life,by sin is an affront to ourselves, neighbors and God. When John speaks of salvation it is from all of those destructive forces not just an arbitrary and grumpy god.
Ceeboo wrote:You really don't know any examples of this?