The ldsfaqs / Climate Change MEGATHREAD

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_Gunnar
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Re: The Raw Data didn't convince you.. So maybe data compari

Post by _Gunnar »

ldsfaqs wrote:https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/img/figure/figure1_2.png

1. I want you to look at this image and tell me what you see "different" about all the charts?
What's different, is they basically ALL "start" in the year that most promote their claims, rather than a more full picture of the data.
They all start at different years, and no they don't do that because that's when the data starts as you will see in the below video.

2. This video goes though most of the charts in the above image and shows you clearly how they manipulate the public by starting at a time for which they can show a "serious increase" instead of showing you the more fuller data which doesn't show any "serious increase", in fact near all cases it shows a decrease, not an increase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8455KEDitpU

Basically, this video is showing Climate Alarmists how to better lie using his software.
Well, technically he's showing how they lie. LOL But they can do it even more easy with his software as shown more toward the end.

And you still have not been able come up with a plausible reason why the vast majority of climate scientists would be more untrustworthy than the fossil fuel industry who has a trillions of dollars vested interest in denying fossil fuel driven AGW.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_Maksutov
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Re: The Raw Data didn't convince you.. So maybe data compari

Post by _Maksutov »

It's a vast LEFTIST SCIENTISTIC CONSPIRACY, I tell ya! From Galileo on! :eek:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Gunnar
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Re: Dr. Michael Mann... Fake Nobel Prize and Fake Hockey St

Post by _Gunnar »

ldsfaqs wrote:. . .Yet more discredited climate papers by fossil fuel supported denialist "scientists". . .

And you still have not been able come up with a plausible reason why the vast majority of climate scientists would be more untrustworthy than the fossil fuel industry who has a trillions of dollars vested interest in denying fossil fuel driven AGW.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_Gunnar
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Re: Climate REALITY... The Simple Truth... Raw U.S. Data!

Post by _Gunnar »

mikwut wrote:Here is a link to the peer reviewed paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... th_century

mikwut

And you still have not been able come up with a plausible reason why the vast majority of climate scientists would be more untrustworthy than the fossil fuel industry who has a trillions of dollars vested interest in denying fossil fuel driven AGW.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_honorentheos
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Re: Climate REALITY... The Simple Truth... Raw U.S. Data!

Post by _honorentheos »

Regarding the above comment about it being a valid scientific question if the urban heat island effect and weather station location inserted a bias in the data used in climate models. The paper mikwut linked to didn't handle it well, asserting that the database used relied on algorithms to address multiple biases that were still being influenced due to prevalence of the so-called urbanization bias in surrounding stations so they made a selective search of stations to include, then further reduced it based on their concern over a siting bias (i.e. that microclimate conditions around the rural stations they included were causing overinflated readings as well), and ultimately coming to conclusions that were clearly driving the cherry picking taking place to achieve the targeted result. I'm not sure why anyone would feel it was compelling or even remotely scientific. It was handwaving with numbers.

But the question, being interesting and unaddressed in the paper, led me to spend some time reading labout it more last night. Turned out this was such a valid concern that it has been evaluated by the scientific community essentially from the beginning of the climate change debate. Those studies took seriously the question of how influential urban heat island was on surface temperature data variation between stations and came away with pretty compelling answers. I think it should not go overlooked that it wasn't assumed to be a climate change critic's position early on, but rather was a question that needed answered. Over the years it's become a climate change critical position that was addressed over and over with each update of the IPCC reports. The most recent report that came out last year reflects the more current concern that the negative impacts of climate change can be exacerbated by the urban heat island effect for people living in urban areas. Heat waves can be that much worse, droughts that much more intense. All are problems that matter and need mitigated.

A couple of websites for easy access to both the question above and how urban heat island is being viewed by the non-climate change skeptics as influencing the issue:

Climate Skeptics
https://skepticalscience.com/urban-heat ... ediate.htm

EPA
https://www.epa.gov/heat-islands/climat ... at-islands
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Gunnar
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Re: The Raw Data didn't convince you.. So maybe data compari

Post by _Gunnar »

Maksutov wrote:It's a vast LEFTIST SCIENTISTIC CONSPIRACY, I tell ya! From Galileo on! :eek:

Of course! It is even worse than the multi-millennial, world-wide conspiracy of scholars, governments and scientists dating at least from the time of the ancient Greeks to convince us all that the world is not actually flat, but is globe shaped. Thank god for the modern flat earth movement working so diligently to set us all straight, or rather, flat! :rolleyes: :wink:
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_canpakes
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Re: Climate REALITY... The Simple Truth... Raw U.S. Data!

Post by _canpakes »

honorentheos wrote:It certainly was an odd paper. The second half of the paper where they start with the claim that the urban heat island effect is causing a bias in the weather station data was interesting as a claim that turned out to be bizarre in study execution.

To focus on that point, they begin with the phenomena of urban areas have higher average temperatures than nearby rural areas largely due many factors from the lack of vegetative cover, heat capture in concrete and black asphalt, etc. The urban heat island effect was assumed by the authors to be influencing weather station data used in the modeling causing an "urbanization bias" that they proposed to offset by restricting a data set to rural areas and comparing the results with other prediction models. It's a valid scientific question that deserved to be investigated. The issue is with how they went about it.


Whew. Kudos to the authors for emphasizing the data sets from rural areas. We're lucky that the patterns of human habitation clearly show that urbanization, and what it represents, can never be extensive enough to affect the overall climate picture. ; )

Image
_canpakes
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Re: The Raw Data didn't convince you.. So maybe data compari

Post by _canpakes »

ldsfaqs wrote:Basically, this video is showing Climate Alarmists how to better lie using his software.

Translated faqs:

"His own data set shows warming, and he's mad that folks noticed that".
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Climate REALITY... The Simple Truth... Raw U.S. Data!

Post by _Res Ipsa »

That’s a good point, Honor. As far as the temperature index is concerned, the fact that urban stations are warmer than others is not the problem. The problem is that cities grow over time, which can make urban stations show a greater heating trend over time. That’s why all temperature indexes either have an express UHI correction (GISS) or use an algorithm that removes any warming bias due to the heat island effect. The authors did not do what one has to do to correct for any bias: analyze the trends over time. They also didn’t test to see if the temperature difference they observed was due to differences in elevation, differences in latitude, etc. There was nothing in the paper that justified the creation of their home brew station set.

UHI is one of the zombie issues that deniers bring up again and again, regardless of the evidence. Anthony Watts spearheaded the Surface Stations project to prove that poor station siting, especially urban areas, was the cause of the warming. He and his volunteer acolytes photographed weather stations, classifying them by quality. But when the data was gathered, it turned out that his high quality stations showed a greater heating trend than his low quality ones.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/ushcn/station-siting

When climate skeptics, funded by Koch, formed a team to do their own global temperature index, one of the issues they scrutinized was, They tested their index for UHI and wrote a paper that showed their index (Berkeley Earth) had no UHI bias. And, to the sounds of weeping and wailing and gnashing of denier teeth, there was no significant difference between the skeptic’s temperature index and the other indexes prepared by mainstream climate scientists.

http://static.berkeleyearth.org/papers/ ... -1-104.pdf
http://berkeleyearth.org/2018-temperatures/

Incidentally, the Berkeley Earth team went into their project highly skeptical of the adjustments to raw data discussed in the OP. They described their findings Judith Curry’s blog. https://www.google.com/amp/s/judithcurr ... -data/amp/

They found no evidence of skullduggery. Their analysis also shows how Tony Heller’s complaints about the adjustments are one big cherry pick. The US represents around 5% of the land surface area. The smaller area one picks, the easier it is to find adjustments of larger magnitude. The paper shows that, if you look only at Africa, the adjustment algorithm results in a cooling trend. And Heller picked a smaller subset of the US weather stations precisely because it showed the trend he wanted, without ever explaining that the adjustments were higher because of changes made in that set of stations to standardize them. With Heller, it’s always cherries.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_canpakes
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Re: Dr. Michael Mann... Fake Nobel Prize and Fake Hockey St

Post by _canpakes »

ldsfaqs wrote:That "email" is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT EMAIL then the one Dr David Deming got.

Where's the actual email, faqs?

Don't be a dark, evil, iniquitous, depraved, nefarious, rotten, sinful, unethical, unlawful, unrighteous, unsavory, vicious, vile, villainous, wicked, immoral, lying liary liar. Just link to the actual email.
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