Barr to jail, Trump to impeachment

[_moksha]

Pretty sure in admitting he asked the Ukranian President to help smear Joe Biden, Trump equates this political skullduggery with his scenario of shooting someone in broad daylight on 5th Avenue and his supporters not caring.

I'm thinking Trump has taken a pretty good measure of the Republican moral compass.

[_Res Ipsa]

Is it even possible to successfully penalize Barr for contempt of Congress, obstruction of justice, or any other kind of lawbreaking, even if he is clearly guilty, without his acquiescence, as long as he is AG, and Trump still supports him?

The constitution provides for the impeachment of all "civil officers of the United States." Remedies for contempt of Congress by a member of the executive branch are pretty much terra incognita.

[Guest]

Is it even possible to successfully penalize Barr for contempt of Congress, obstruction of justice, or any other kind of lawbreaking, even if he is clearly guilty, without his acquiescence, as long as he is AG, and Trump still supports him?

Once again, Trump has said he will pardon anyone who aids and abets him in withholding information.

That's what I'm afraid of!

[_Gunnar]

If even a fraction of the allegations about the corruption of Moscow Mitch and his wife are true, both of them fully deserve impeachment as well. Who is going to preside over that trial, should it occur? Surely McConnell would legally have to recuse himself from having anything to do with that trial.

[_Res Ipsa]

If even a fraction of the allegations about the corruption of Moscow Mitch and his wife are true, both of them fully deserve impeachment as well. Who is going to preside over that trial, should it occur? Surely McConnell would legally have to recuse himself from having anything to do with that trial.

Senators are not subject to impeachment. An impeachment trial is presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

[_EAllusion]

If even a fraction of the allegations about the corruption of Moscow Mitch and his wife are true, both of them fully deserve impeachment as well. Who is going to preside over that trial, should it occur? Surely McConnell would legally have to recuse himself from having anything to do with that trial.

Senators are not subject to impeachment. An impeachment trial is presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

That's true, but for what Gunnar is asking, I think it's important to understand that Mitch McConnell will remain the majority leader of the body that casts the votes to determine the outcome.

Turns out you only need 34 votes in the Senate to be a dictator.

[_EAllusion]

Sounds like your friend has schizophrenia.

To be clear, the ODNI rationale as advised by the OLC for why not allowing the whistleblower to report to Congress as required by law was already offered based on privilege and that rationale misrepresents the law. They also assert that the complaint does not meet the definition of "urgent concern," but by law that is not their determination to make. It is not necessary to investigate that reason to know if it is true because we already know it is false. To carry the initial analogy, someone has been murdered on 5th avenue; the accused is saying that murder is actually legal on 5th avenue, and you're out here saying that we need to hear their novel legal defense out before rushing to judgement. Forgive me if I don't put much stock in your scolding for saying, "No, it's not." They are in open violation of the law. The only stick available to make them stop violating the law involves penalties. The investigation, such as it is, is at a crossroads on that point. The whistleblower is free to testify anyway and just face employment consequences, though the Trump administration has issued vague (and toothless) threats on that front.

The upshot here is Trump and assoc. are openly confessing to the core issue under a mountain of other evidence out in public, so we don't actually need to hear what the whistleblower has to say to know something impeachable has occurred. It would just be nice to know whatever else that person has to say. On the downside, you're literally arguing that unless the accused agrees to allow the investigation to continue at their say so, then we can't make a judgment about the accused because we need that investigation. That might be a flaw in your understanding of due process.

[_honorentheos]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... le-1505636

Anyway.

It seems this is quite possibly the event that escalates to impeachment proceedings. I assume the need to follow procedures is frustrating to some personality types but it is essential to making sure the outcomes aren't as destructive as the events that initiated them. Including calling for AG Barr to serve prison time out of the gate being premature and damaging rhetoric.

[_honorentheos]

If even a fraction of the allegations about the corruption of Moscow Mitch and his wife are true, both of them fully deserve impeachment as well. Who is going to preside over that trial, should it occur?

The people of Kentucky.

I would carefully think through what you are advocating here. The idea a body of Congress can go about removing other members of Congress against the will of their constituent voters as an act certainly defined by party lines rather than due to serious bipartisan censure is another fatal move for the Republic. Just because things are concerning now shouldn't mean we start pulling gears out and hitting it with a hammer to try and fix it. We may not like what is going on, and McConnell has proven willing to pull gears out himself. But still, there are plenty of forces opposing the preservation of the Constitution at work as is without adding to it.

[_EAllusion]

If even a fraction of the allegations about the corruption of Moscow Mitch and his wife are true, both of them fully deserve impeachment as well. Who is going to preside over that trial, should it occur?

The people of Kentucky.

That’s a weird answer in the context of Mitch McConnell aiding and abettig the undermining free and fair elections in Kentucky.

What to do about Mitch McConnell helping Donald Trump use the levers of government to undermine elections?

Have an election?

There is a internal process to refuse to seat Senators Gunnar, but that process is a non-starter in this case. Barring some kind of electoral catastrophe for Republicans in 2020, he will be re-elected. You mostly just have to wait for him to die.