Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
_Icarus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:01 pm

Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _Icarus »

https://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/emb ... -image.jpg

This new GOP defense has been all the rage on the internet the past couple of days. When I first heard it, it just smelled like BS to me and it turns out I was right. GOP legislators, Trump defenders, Right Wing media personalities, etc. They're all jumping right on this bandwagon without even doing basic research to see if its true. They believe it because someone at the Federalist asserted it and it dovetails with their constant narrative of mass Deep State conspiracy.

Well, turns out it is incorrect and the hysteria over this is unwarranted.

The smoking gun in the putative conspiracy is an obscure government form, IC IG ICWSP Form 401, also known as the Disclosure of Urgent Concern Form. The document is put out by the IC IG for intelligence workers who need to file urgent complaints that trigger special treatment under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act.

According to the GOP and an army of conservative commentators, the old version of the form prohibited workers from submitting urgent complaints based on secondhand information; only misconduct witnessed personally could be reported. That changed in early August, the false claim goes, when ICIG Michael Atkinson snuck through a hasty revision to the complaint form that reversed longstanding policy.

“Whistleblowers were required to provide direct, first-hand knowledge of allegations,” reads a Saturday tweet by House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy. “But just days before the Ukraine whistleblower came forward, the IC secretly removed that requirement from the complaint form.”

“Records show that the intelligence community quietly revised the formal whistleblower complaint form in August 2019,” Rudy Giuliani tweeted on Sunday. “Eliminating the requirement to have direct, first-hand knowledge of perceived wrongdoing. Coincidence?”

“That was on the form literally until apparently very recently,” said another Trump lawyer, Jay Sekulow, in an appearance on Hannity. “Months ago: No firsthand information, no report.”

“WOW, they got caught,” tweeted Trump. “End the Witch Hunt now!”

The Atkinson smear comes amid a broad GOP campaign seemingly calculated to discredit the whistleblower report as unreliable, partisan hearsay, despite it having already been corroborated by an IC IG review and confirmed by the White House’s own transcript of Trump’s call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky. It began late Friday with a story from the conservative website The Federalist headlined “Intel Community Secretly Gutted Requirement Of First-Hand Whistleblower Knowledge.” The article claimed “the intelligence community secretly revised the formal whistleblower complaint form in August 2019 to eliminate the requirement of direct, first-hand knowledge of wrongdoing.”

“It seems like they are jumping to a lot of conclusions based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the law, the regulatory framework, and the language on one form,” said Julian Sanchez, a senior fellow at the libertarian Cato Institute.

The kernel of fact near the center of the conspiracy theory is that there is, indeed, a new version of Form 401 dated August 2019.
A question on the form explicitly anticipates tips based on secondhand information, and asks the whistleblower to check a box: “I have direct and personal knowledge,” or, “I heard about it from others.” The Federalist used a screenshot of that field to illustrate its story.

What the article didn’t mention or screenshot is a nearly identical field gracing Form 401 since at least May 2018, making it impossible that it was added as an easement for Trump’s whistleblower. The major difference in the fields is that the old form includes three options instead of two, subdividing secondhand sources into outside source and “other employees.”

There’s a reason the form has allowed secondhand reports all along. The requirement for firsthand whistleblowing only is completely made up.

“There’s never been a requirement that a whistleblower have firsthand knowledge of what they’re reporting,” said Irvin McCullough, an investigator at the nonprofit Government Accountability Project (and the son of a former IC IG). “They need to have a reasonable belief. The firsthand information is usually gathered by the inspector general, as I believe did occur here.”

When the IC IG receives an urgent report, it has 14 days to conduct a preliminary review under the law. If that investigation produces enough direct evidence, the IC IG can rule it “credible,” which triggers the legal requirement to forward the report to the director of central intelligence (DCI), and from there to Congress.

The Federalist and supporters of the Atkinson smear also point to a two-page information sheet distributed as part of the May 2018 version of the form but not the August 2019 version. It’s unclear when it was dropped, but a paragraph in that now-excised preamble was headed, “First-Hand Information Required,” seemingly contradicting the form itself. “In order to find an ‘urgent’ concern credible, the IC IG must be in possession of reliable, first-hand information,” the text read in part. “The IC IG cannot transmit information via the ICWPA based on an employee’s second-hand knowledge of wrongdoing.”

Though the text is confusingly drafted—which may be why the entire preamble was canned—a careful reading shows it’s not erecting a new hurdle for filing a whistleblower complaint, but rather describing the type of evidence the IC IG has to gather to judge the complaint “credible” at the end of its 14-day investigation.

“It’s an explanation of the IG’s standard for assessing credibility,” said Sanchez in an interview with The Daily Beast. “The IG isn’t going to forward it to the DNI if it can’t corroborate secondhand or indirect information. The whistleblower’s job is not to investigate. That is the job of the IG.”

In other words, Trump’s whistleblower didn’t go through some shady “deep state” backdoor. He or she followed the process, and government investigators found the firsthand evidence themselves.

“Complainant was not a direct witness to President’s telephone call with the Ukrainian President on July 25, 2019,” the IC IG wrote on Aug. 26. “Other information obtained during the preliminary review, however, supports the Complainant’s allegation that, among other things, during the call the President ‘sought to pressure the Ukrainian leader to take actions to help the President’s 2020 reelection bid.’”
"One of the hardest things for me to accept is the fact that Kevin Graham has blonde hair, blue eyes and an English last name. This ugly truth blows any arguments one might have for actual white supremacism out of the water. He's truly a disgrace." - Ajax
_Res Ipsa
_Emeritus
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _Res Ipsa »

The Federalist Society. Why am I not surprised?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _subgenius »

TL:DR
because media matters is wholly unreliable and is the Ajax of the left.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_DarkHelmet
_Emeritus
Posts: 5422
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:38 pm

Re: Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _DarkHelmet »

subgenius wrote:TL:DR
because media matters is wholly unreliable and is the Ajax of the left.


Why are you trashing your buddy Ajax? There are about 5 Trump supporters on this board. You guys need to stick together.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
_Icarus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:01 pm

Re: Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _Icarus »

subgenius wrote:TL:DR
because media matters is wholly unreliable and is the Ajax of the left.


Media Matters was started by a guy who busted the Clintons and who previously worked for Heritage. Mediamatters also just exposed the Federalist as a meaningless hack site. All their guy had to do was conjure up a conspiracy theory and suddenly he's on FOX News and spreading influence all throughout the Right Wing universe. It took less than a day to debunk it, but you're complaining about the messenger instead of the culprits who continue to propagate this lie.
"One of the hardest things for me to accept is the fact that Kevin Graham has blonde hair, blue eyes and an English last name. This ugly truth blows any arguments one might have for actual white supremacism out of the water. He's truly a disgrace." - Ajax
_canpakes
_Emeritus
Posts: 8541
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:54 am

Re: Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _canpakes »

Icarus wrote:
subgenius wrote:TL:DR
because media matters is wholly unreliable and is the Ajax of the left.

Media Matters was started by a guy who busted the Clintons and who previously worked for Heritage. Mediamatters also just exposed the Federalist as a meaningless hack site. All their guy had to do was conjure up a conspiracy theory and suddenly he's on FOX News and spreading influence all throughout the Right Wing universe. It took less than a day to debunk it, but you're complaining about the messenger instead of the culprits who continue to propagate this lie.

subs is just disappointed that he can’t be one of those culprits knowingly propagating the lie now that the jig’s up.
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _Chap »

In any case, the complainant was certified as having

"had official and authorized access to the information and sources referenced in the Complainant’s Letter and Classified Appendix, including direct knowledge of certain alleged conduct"

and

"the ICIG did not find that the Complainant could “provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions,” "

So that's settled, then.

Intelligence community watchdog contradicts Trump assertions about whistleblower knowledge of “alleged conduct”

The office of the inspector general of the US intelligence community put out a statement last night, as we just flagged, in which he explained some further, key details about the characteristics of the whistleblower complaint he, Michael Atkinson, received on August 12.

The complaint was deemed by the inspector general to be credible and of urgent concern, detailing as it did a phone call between Donald Trump and the Ukrainian president in July in which the US president suggested Ukraine investigate his political rival, Joe Biden.

Trump has been trying to undercut the complainant - the whistleblower- by shouting loudly on Twitter about he or she relying on having received details about the phone call (which Trump repeatedly asserts, anyway, was a “perfect” call) second or third hand.

The new statement from Atkinson’s office reads: “The Complainant on the form he or she submitted on August 12, 2019 in fact checked two relevant boxes: The first box stated that, “I have personal and/or direct knowledge of events or records involved”; and the second box stated that, “Other employees have told me about events or records involved.”

As part of his determination that the urgent concern appeared credible, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community determined that the Complainant had official and authorized access to the information and sources referenced in the Complainant’s Letter and Classified Appendix, including direct knowledge of certain alleged conduct, and that the Complainant has subject matter expertise related to much of the material information provided in the Complainant’s Letter and Classified Appendix.

In short, the ICIG did not find that the Complainant could “provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions,” which would have made it much harder, and significantly less likely, for the Inspector General to determine in a 14-calendar day review period that the complaint “appeared credible,” as required by statute.

You can read the full statement from the office of the inspector general here.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Res Ipsa
_Emeritus
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _Res Ipsa »

It should be settled, but the false claim will be taken as gospel truth among Trump supporters.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: Hearsay Rule was Secretly Changed days before ...

Post by _moksha »

Res Ipsa wrote:It should be settled, but the false claim will be taken as gospel truth among Trump supporters.

The true order of Conservative Prayer: Ben-Gaz-He.

The true order of Trumpian Prayer: Stable-Genius-Me.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Post Reply