The nation is close to dead

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Just so people who post here know, a lot of what Ajax is regurgitating is parroted ad infinitum on 4chan. Please take a moment to read this recent thread that is basically the same exact thing he posted today (THE SITE IS NSFW):

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/228430513

I'm fairly certain Ajax is a frequent flyer on /pol/ along with subgenius. I just see waaaaay too many parallel themes and paranoia which is created and repeated constantly on this site. Perhaps a lot of the ideas and conspiracies start to bleed over to places like Stormfront, but I can assure you 4chan is 100% the breeding ground for this sort of anarchistic soup of hate. A lot of these posts are generated by self-professed white nationalists, fascists, neo-nazis, ethnic purists, and so on and so forth. They all call themselves something different, but it's all just a shade or flavor of supremacism.

I will tell you. It's been a weird four or five weeks since the Daytona and El Paso shootings, and I decided to get smart on /pol/ because this is absolutely where a lot of this garbage is being pushed. If you do decide to do what I did and start reading all these posts just understand it's damned bizarre, and it took me a few weeks to even start to understand how 4chan operates. It's really hard to explain how organic, yet deliberate, that site is. What I've come to understand is there are definitely mods and preferred posters who are allowed to push insane and relentless propaganda, and then it takes on a life of its own. It's a sort of mix of anarchy, irony, trolling, and supremacism. Once you get the hang of the place and you start seeing how Trump speaks and what issues he believes are important you can actually see what ideas were generated from this site. I can 100% say, without a doubt and without irony, Trump falls into this camp.

Another thing. I can 100% see how and why people like Ajax and subgenius are impervious to reasoned discussion here. 4chan has this weird effect of inoculating you against discourse. The posting behavior, especially by subgenius, his syntax, his quick-hit posting style, the recurring inane themes, all of it is basically > greentext conversation. /pol/ 100% affects the way people think, communicate, and reason. It's an extremely powerful tool and extremely effective at brainwashing participants into believing that things are certain way. Kids and young adults who haven't developed life skills, haven't had much exposure to the broader world, and who haven't developed abstract and analytical reasoning skills are instead consumed by the facile and relentless imagery and propaganda there. It's kind of terrifying, really. I'll admit that the first week or two that I was there I was like, "What the “F”. Can this really be?" It's incredibly effective, and it takes not a little effort to research and balance out their 'fake news'.

Anyway. It's very serious. We have a very serious problem on our hands, and I guess we'll see how it goes. From Facebook memes to website designed to push a particular narrative, it's fairly easy to see how this is creating divisive echo chambers. It's absolutely bizarre to me that a book I read way back in 2000 (?) called The Global Paradox was spot on. The Internet has connected and then divided us. We're in a very tricky era, and I believe Ajax isn't that far off (though misguided) in the sense that this country is kind of over. People are creating their own ethnostates, but it's happening online. Crazy days, man.

- Doc

[_ajax18]

By ajax logic, we don't enforce any laws, because some people still get away with them.

Yes, "we have 30 million people in the country illegally that we're not willing to deport but we don't believe in open borders." Imagine if that many people didn't pay their taxes. Something tells me the politicians who feed off these taxes as well as the employers who rely on these taxes to provide their illegal labor force public benefits would take note and come down hard through the IRS. You want ICE abolished? How about we abolish the IRS first and I doubt we'd even need ICE anymore. The gravy train would just dry up.

[_Res Ipsa]

Just so people who post here know, a lot of what Ajax is regurgitating is parroted ad infinitum on 4chan. Please take a moment to read this recent thread that is basically the same exact thing he posted today (THE SITE IS NSFW):

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/228430513

I'm fairly certain Ajax is a frequent flyer on /pol/ along with subgenius. I just see waaaaay too many parallel themes and paranoia which is created and repeated constantly on this site. Perhaps a lot of the ideas and conspiracies start to bleed over to places like Stormfront, but I can assure you 4chan is 100% the breeding ground for this sort of anarchistic soup of hate. A lot of these posts are generated by self-professed white nationalists, fascists, neo-nazis, ethnic purists, and so on and so forth. They all call themselves something different, but it's all just a shade or flavor of supremacism.

I will tell you. It's been a weird four or five weeks since the Daytona and El Paso shootings, and I decided to get smart on /pol/ because this is absolutely where a lot of this garbage is being pushed. If you do decide to do what I did and start reading all these posts just understand it's ____ bizarre, and it took me a few weeks to even start to understand how 4chan operates. It's really hard to explain how organic, yet deliberate, that site is. What I've come to understand is there are definitely mods and preferred posters who are allowed to push insane and relentless propaganda, and then it takes on a life of its own. It's a sort of mix of anarchy, irony, trolling, and supremacism. Once you get the hang of the place and you start seeing how Trump speaks and what issues he believes are important you can actually see what ideas were generated from this site. I can 100% say, without a doubt and without irony, Trump falls into this camp.

Another thing. I can 100% see how and why people like Ajax and subgenius are impervious to reasoned discussion here. 4chan has this weird effect of inoculating you against discourse. The posting behavior, especially by subgenius, his syntax, his quick-hit posting style, the recurring inane themes, all of it is basically > greentext conversation. /pol/ 100% affects the way people think, communicate, and reason. It's an extremely powerful tool and extremely effective at brainwashing participants into believing that things are certain way. Kids and young adults who haven't developed life skills, haven't had much exposure to the broader world, and who haven't developed abstract and analytical reasoning skills are instead consumed by the facile and relentless imagery and propaganda there. It's kind of terrifying, really. I'll admit that the first week or two that I was there I was like, "What the ____. Can this really be?" It's incredibly effective, and it takes not a little effort to research and balance out their 'fake news'.

Anyway. It's very serious. We have a very serious problem on our hands, and I guess we'll see how it goes. From Facebook memes to website designed to push a particular narrative, it's fairly easy to see how this is creating divisive echo chambers. It's absolutely bizarre to me that a book I read way back in 2000 (?) called The Global Paradox was spot on. The Internet has connected and then divided us. We're in a very tricky era, and I believe Ajax isn't that far off (though misguided) in the sense that this country is kind of over. People are creating their own ethnostates, but it's happening online. Crazy days, man.

- Doc

Jesus, that’s an ugly place. I need me some brain bleach.

[_EAllusion]

I have the history of 4chan's transformation from "ironically evil" to "actually evil" in pretty good detail in my head as it was happening and I still can't get my head around it.

Subgenius has always been tapped into freeper type sources since he's been posting here. 4chan is now in that information bloodstream, so he's either getting ideas directly or indirectly from there.

Ajax, as we know, has been a frequent participant in white supremacist online gatherings. /pol seems a little hip for him, but those sources are incestuous with one another.

[_Icarus]

By ajax logic, we don't enforce any laws, because some people still get away with them.

Yes, "we have 30 million people in the country illegally that we're not willing to deport but we don't believe in open borders." Imagine if that many people didn't pay their taxes. Something tells me the politicians who feed off these taxes as well as the employers who rely on these taxes to provide their illegal labor force public benefits would take note and come down hard through the IRS. You want ICE abolished? How about we abolish the IRS first and I doubt we'd even need ICE anymore. The gravy train would just dry up.

I asked you a simple question, hoping you would answer but you didn't.

Do you believe enforcing the border means enforcing it so that 100% of the people trying to cross are stopped?

At what success rate do we need to be at before we're "enforcing the border"?

You do realize more people were deported under Obama than any other President, right? Following this logic, Trump is horrible at enforcing the border.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I have the history of 4chan's transformation from "ironically evil" to "actually evil" in pretty good detail in my head as it was happening and I still can't get my head around it.

Subgenius has always been tapped into freeper type sources since he's been posting here. 4chan is now in that information bloodstream, so he's either getting ideas directly or indirectly from there.

Ajax, as we know, has been a frequent participant in white supremacist online gatherings. /pol seems a little hip for him, but those sources are incestuous with one another.

I had to google 'freeper'. For those who don't know:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Freeper

You were the one that actually got me on the idea I should be more familiar with 4chan. Like others, I kind of knew about it, or heard it discussed, but I never went there because I reddit and would occasionally click on r/4chan for their funny or weird green text threads. I just kind of assumed the entire site was like that until you mentioned, I think, for the second or third time it was a source for white nationalism or fascism or something. I just thought they were edgelords larping the n-word and insulting each other.

Anyway, after the Christchurch shooting it occurred to me I should get smart on the site, but I didn't feel super motivated. Finally after the last two mass shootings I thought to myself, "This is problem, and you need to understand what's going on." I'm absolutely convinced that it's become the primary incubator for everything I already posted. Then again, I don't visit any extremist forums so I'm kind of talking out my ass. I just don't really want that negativity in my dome, and I'm getting to the point where I'm good on 4chan.

For anyone reading this I have the perfect 'too long;didn't read' for 4chan and politics:

If it sounds absolutely [1] retarded, [2]insanely racist, or [3]purposefully divisive it originated and incubated from 4chan.

1. Pizza restaurant is ground zero for Clinton or Democrat child sex trafficking.

2. Michelle Obama is a man or trans mtf.

3. The country is *this close* to a race war, civil war, or balkanizing.

Also, it's a hotbed of degenerate pornographic imagery that they sometimes take seriously and sometimes pretend to take seriously. This is routinely inserted into all political threads which has a deliberate effect on one's morality. The point of their free speech website is to basically see what happens when free speech is essentially unmoderated (there are mods, though, and that's a whole 'nother thing with regard to their moderating), but it's a bully pulpit for relentless propaganda that is mostly dominated by the 'alt-Right' which is basically Trumpism* (though they think he's a Jewish puppet and they hate him for that). *This is essentially a 4chan ideology that lauds fascism, nationalism, ethnostates, and strongmen type dictatorships; it hates democracy and regularly craps all over western nations mostly because of race mixing and immigration policies.

- Doc

[_ajax18]

I asked you a simple question, hoping you would answer but you didn't.

Do you believe enforcing the border means enforcing it so that 100% of the people trying to cross are stopped?

At what success rate do we need to be at before we're "enforcing the border"?

You do realize more people were deported under Obama than any other President, right? Following this logic, Trump is horrible at enforcing the border.

Any form of a border that allows 30 million ( nobody even really knows how many) people into the country illegally is not very effective in my view. Do you think that's effective? How is that not a joke? Is that the best we can do? It's a joke! You'd think half the country is actively opening holes in the border at that rate. Well that's exactly what is happening.

I think effective means a few thousand illegals, no public benefits for them or their kids and most them ultimately caught and immediately deported with close to zero chance of reentering. No expensive trials, legalization, just dropped off on the other side of the wall and that's the end of it.

Who cares if people were deported under Obama. They just come right back. It's meaningless and even more dangerous when you deport/free hardened criminals.

[_EAllusion]

4chan was an unmoderated free-for-all for years without it descending into alt-rightism. It's the genesis of all sorts of things that we take for granted as part of internet culture. It's impossible for me to think of the Internet without thinking about things that are parasitic on ideas that were either invented by or popularized by 4chan posters. It seems like the relatively light moderating touch was a necessary, but not sufficient condition for the toxic culture that developed there.

/pol/ ("politically incorrect") was a something awful type subforum where it was mostly people delighting in saying awful things with a smirk, with a mix of sociopathic trolls and people with genuinely awful views blending in. It gradually attracted more of those people who were dead serious while converting people who initially got into it for the irony. "Irony poisoning" is a popular term for the latter phenomenon. It eventually hit a critical mass where the culture itself became a conversion tool. But this didn't happen overnight. It was a slow descent.

While this was happening, the alt-right was developing by cross-pollinating multiple bigoted movements surrounding mostly misogyny and racism. 4chan, and specifically /pol/, was both influenced by and a contributor to this culture.

The wild thing is you have someone like Ajax, who is really just a white supremacist with sympathies towards Nazi ideology, being influenced by aspects of 4chan culture of all things because it's being laundered to him through sources like Brietbart. If you sit back and think about it, that's crazy.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

18 U.S. Code § 2383 Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

- Doc

[_ajax18]

The wild thing is you have someone like Ajax, who is really just a white supremacist with sympathies towards Nazi ideology, being influenced by aspects of 4chan culture of all things because it's being laundered to him through sources like Brietbart.

I don't even know what 4chan is. And I am not a white supremacist. I'm an economic nationalist. Perhaps that's just as bad to most of you here. But to me there's a big difference between the two. If you can't or refuse to see the difference I can't help you. I listen to Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, and Michael Savage on my way to work. Do you think these guys are white supremacist according to how you define it as well?