And then one day...

[_Smokey]

Your ad hominem against one (of the several I cited) eyewitness to the extreme degeneracy and normalized pedophilia in Weimar Germany is not an argument and exposes you as disingenuous.

As if one logical fallacy wasn’t enough, you’re now shifting the goal posts to ‘child prostitution wasn’t officially state sponsored’ so it didn’t happen and the German people were not enraged and motivated by it, even though they said they were.

It’s easier to promote degeneracy and sexualizing children, as you said a liberal value, if you pretend like it’s normal and always has been.

I’ll let the contemporary witnesses and historians speak for themselves, and you can continue to assert, with no evidence or serious argument, that one day, for no reason at all, the German people elected Hitler to power and thus mentally ill homosexual men stripping for little kids is totally acceptable.

[_canpakes]

I’ll let the contemporary witnesses and historians speak for themselves, and you can continue to assert, with no evidence or serious argument, that one day, for no reason at all, the German people elected Hitler to power and thus mentally ill homosexual men stripping for little kids is totally acceptable.

For someone who wants to appear as if he has a broad historical understanding of Hitler's rise to power, you certainly lack the ability to rationally place your limited focus within the larger framework of that history.

And you still suggest that an acceptable response to the issue of your focus was to instil a murduring dictator that put millions to death. It's curious how you won't tackle that moral dilemma.

You're certainly doing your best to live up to the anti-Semitic genesis of your avatar.

[Guest]

Lest we forget the forest for the trees: from the article that Smokey cites:

But if "Voluptuous Panic" enhances Weimar Berlin's reputation as a 20th century Sodom and Gomorrah unlike any other, its author does take issue with the popular notion that the era's dissolution led inevitably to the rise of the Nazis and Hitler's appointment as Reichschancellor in 1933.

"The reality is that Hitler came to power for all kinds of magical reasons. Hitler's nationalist partners brought Hitler into government to humiliate the Nazis and prove they couldn't govern, and the opposite happened. If you look at the week-by-week or day-by-day description of how the Nazis came to power, it had nothing at all to do with the social life of Berlin. It had to do with all these economic factors and political maneuverings that even the Nazis couldn't foresee," Gordon says.


"It was important to me to disprove this idea that decadence leads to fascism," he continues. "It's a very puritanical American equation, that if you have a good time there's some awful aftermath. But it's factually and historically not true. At the time, no one made the connection, and no historian has shown this to be the case."

This is what red-pillars do. They pull snippets of stuff together and hope the rest of us won't look at the whole picture. It's true that Germany experienced an avalanche of sexual promiscuity following WWI. See E. Mowrer, Germany Puts Back the Clock, 197-199. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dl ... /page/n239 Bryant quotes snippets from Mowrer to emphasize decadence, but leaves out the bits that show a broader context. For example, he leaves out Mowrer's observation that the women were more aggressive in the increased promiscuity. He also leaves out Mowrer's observation that "The atmosphere was not so much vicious as sexually casual."

Even more interesting, Mowrer addresses Smokey's disingenuous meme. In describing the attitude toward "sexual previsions," he says: "An agitation was started that would make perversions that did not entail the seduction or abuse of minors a purely private matter."[Emphasis added.]

Bryant adds his own anti-semitism to Mowrer's descriptions, blaming the Jews for Mowrer's description of broad trends at the time. But even he doesn't try and connect the Jews with child prostitution -- Smokey does that by putting Bryant's recollection of child prostitution together with Jewish ownership of cabarets, when they appear in Bryant's book in completely separate paragraphs. And he goes even further by conflating transgender folks with pedophiles.

So, it's absolutely false that all (any??) historians attribute the rise of Hitler to changes in sexual mores after WWI. And the notion that non-heterosexuals deserve to be arrested, thrown in concentration camps, and/or killed should be repugnant to any civilized human.

Tell you what, Smokey. Why don't you start by getting the kiddy diddler Bishops away from the LDS youth. When you get that done, you can worry about Drag Queen story time.

[_EAllusion]

Your ad hominem against one (of the several I cited) eyewitness to the extreme degeneracy and normalized pedophilia in Weimar Germany is not an argument and exposes you as disingenuous.

Pointing out your inference on child prostitution code is deficient is not "ad hominem."

Your basis for asserting that pedophilia was given free reign in Weimar Germany is the say-so assertion of a British historian making the claim based on personal observation in the context of blaming Jews for sexual licentiousness while praising Nazi Germany? Calling it eyewitness testimony doesn't strengthen the evidential value of a single, biased anecdote. Moreover, this does not establish that "every historian already knows" what you asserted. Strange, given that's what you were trying to prove when you offered it.

[_EAllusion]

So, it's absolutely false that all (any??) historians attribute the rise of Hitler to changes in sexual mores after WWI. And the notion that non-heterosexuals deserve to be arrested, thrown in concentration camps, and/or killed should be repugnant to any civilized human.

I don't think it is controversial to note that the Nazi party formed a political coalition with support from conservative Christians whose allied political priorities included opposition to the nascent sexual revolution of the era. Support for the Nazis crackdown on gays didn't come from nowhere. That Nazism benefited from support from those upset with social changes, including increased sexual permissiveness, in the preceding decade isn't controversial.

That Nazism and its rise to power was primarily a response to that? Yeah, that's wrong. That Nazism was a reaction to a rash of acceptance of pedophilia? That's, um, extremely not true. That this finds parallel in drag queen story hour? Even more off the ranch.

As a 4chan style ironic, but not ironic, but ironic dancing with Nazism type, Smokey leaves open whether he's arguing that we must oppose drag queen story hour lest it produces Nazism, which is bad, or if he is arguing that Nazism is a justified social response to drag queen story hour. But we can point out each of those points is asinine in its own way.

[_honorentheos]

Recent military defeat and a national identity crisis weighing on them,

Global economic collapse and runaway inflation exacerbated by a government the people felt were out of touch with the common people,

Historic frenemy and near neighbor (Russia) being uprooted by revolution and overcome by Communism,

...where does this meme get off suggesting people are naïve if they don't see moral conditions in the country was the reason people chose to "vote" Hitler into power? (they didn't, he was popular but lost the election in '32 and gained power through politicking not democracy)

Here's your actual parallels.

Since the 1970s, income inequality in the US has being getting worse,

Conservatives in the US have been sold the idea that if you work hard you will get ahead and do very well while the economy has increasing benefited the already wealthy to the detriment of the middle and lower classes. And they have bought into it despite the issue being one's ability to get ahead is less and less tied to one's willingness and ability to work hard,

The political right has used the vilification of the left and so-called moral corruption as a tool to get voters angry and on their side, but then used their political victories to protect their increasing share of the nation's wealth while ignoring the middle and lower classes because it's turned out to be much cheaper and easier to pit them against one another. The so-called culture wars is a lever, and people's fear of others is the fulcrum on which the conservative elite have moved the average right voter off the ground of evidence-based thinking,

The US has been engaging in military adventuring that has lacked clear objectives and often feels like failure despite overwhelming military victories; and there is a decided anti-military bent to the political left that can read as unpatriotic to the right in the US,

...and then one day the right voted in a psychopath because they'd left reason behind long ago while being betrayed by their political party of choice, and only see the other party as the embodiment of evil because they've been trained for decades now to do so.

[_Smokey]

Pointing out your inference on child prostitution code is deficient is not "ad hominem."

You are again being disingenuous.

Dismissing the contemporary documentation of child prostitution and pedophilia in Weimar Germany because you find that one of the historians wasn’t complimentary enough of Jews later in life is “ad hominem.”

Anyways, no serious person denies that Weimar Germany was a depraved mess. Because you’d feel right at home there does not change this.

[_Some Schmo]

Hey Smokey, why don't you just explicitly say what you are trying to say?

[_Doctor Steuss]

Some parents allow their kids to do things that are against the mores of others, and in some cases might be psychologically damaging; therefore, kill all of the Jews and gays.

Five star thread. Would read again.

[_canpakes]

Hey Smokey, why don't you just explicitly say what you are trying to say?

I’ll say it for him: He’s completely terrified of folks in drag.

And, don’t forget the story behind his avatar -

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/clown-pe ... rld?full=1

ETA: he doesn’t know what “ad hominem” means, either.

Reading his replies is like being sucked back into a jumbled collection of those messy Droopy posts from past days.
: D