Donald Trump just isn't a good person

[Guest]

While you may think this is odd (where you don't pay for bad work), it is quite common in the construction industry...perhaps get educated about concepts like "retention" and how the industry actually functions before you proclaim such condemnations.

You're taking it for granted that all the people who worked for Trump provided "bad work." Why? Because Trump says so? You're hanging on the fact that it is technically legal to be so immoral in this practice, but that's the point of the article. It is legal, but the reason it remains legal is because not enough people are taking advantage of the little guy like Trump is. If everyone had Trump's lack of morality then virtually every construction company would go out of business, which would have necessitated the law being changed a long time ago.

And in my experience, you're wrong. This isn't "quite common" in the construction industry. In fact, I cannot think of a single example of a construction company getting stiffed for work completed and I'm personally acquainted with several builders.

In 2002, the Trump Organization hired Tesoro’s firm to design the Westchester golf course’s clubhouse. As Tesoro noted in a video produced by Hillary Clinton’s campaign, Donald Trump had even personally commented on and approved the design.

But when it came to payment time (a rumored $140,000), Trump’s company only offered to pay the architect $25,000. When he protested, members from Trump’s company invited him to the same building he designed and allegedly intimidated him into accepting the smaller amount.

When the architect called for a personal meeting with the Donald, the developer told Tesoro that he’d already paid all he could and that too much money had been spent on the project. Trump’s lawyer allegedly informed Tesoro that while he might win a lawsuit, he would be drowned by the legal costs relating to it, and hence Tesoro abandoned any notion of doing so.

Tesoro’s small business was virtually left bankrupt as a result, and he had to use the money set aside for his son’s college education, and most of his savings to eventually rescue his firm.

"Because I was the little guy, he was winning and wanted to keep winning, and his definition of winning is making sure the other guy loses," Tesoro says in the video. "And that way of doing business is just not very fair to the little guy."

Hence, the underlying point of the article is that Donald J. Trump cares absolutely nothing for the little guy.

USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills

Donald Trump often portrays himself as a savior of the working class who will "protect your job." But a USA TODAY NETWORK analysis found he has been involved in more than 3,500 lawsuits over the past three decades — and a large number of those involve ordinary Americans, like the Friels, who say Trump or his companies have refused to pay them.

At least 60 lawsuits, along with hundreds of liens, judgments, and other government filings reviewed by the USA TODAY NETWORK, document people who have accused Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others.

Trump’s companies have also been cited for 24 violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act since 2005 for failing to pay overtime or minimum wage, according to U.S. Department of Labor data. That includes 21 citations against the defunct Trump Plaza in Atlantic City and three against the also out-of-business Trump Mortgage LLC in New York. Both cases were resolved by the companies agreeing to pay back wages.

In addition to the lawsuits, the review found more than 200 mechanic’s liens — filed by contractors and employees against Trump, his companies or his properties claiming they were owed money for their work — since the 1980s. The liens range from a $75,000 claim by a Plainview, N.Y., air conditioning and heating company to a $1 million claim from the president of a New York City real estate banking firm. On just one project, Trump’s Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, records released by the New Jersey Casino Control Commission in 1990 show that at least 253 subcontractors weren’t paid in full or on time, including workers who installed walls, chandeliers and plumbing.

The actions in total paint a portrait of Trump’s sprawling organization frequently failing to pay small businesses and individuals, then sometimes tying them up in court and other negotiations for years. In some cases, the Trump teams financially overpower and outlast much smaller opponents, draining their resources. Some just give up the fight, or settle for less; some have ended up in bankruptcy or out of business altogether.

Trump and his daughter Ivanka, in an interview with USA TODAY, shrugged off the lawsuits and other claims of non-payment. If a company or worker he hires isn’t paid fully, the Trump's said, it’s because The Trump Organization was unhappy with the work.

[_Some Schmo]

I suppose, but I've never seen an episode of The Apprentice, so I don't know what he did or didn't show off or the sorts of decisions he made on it.

To be honest, I never sat through an entire episode myself. It was a show my wife used to watch when it was big, and I would see snippets of it walking through the room. What I saw was enough to think, This show is BS. There's no way this guy is a genius businessman. He has fake written all over him.

I used to tease her for watching it back then. Now we don't talk about it.

by the way, I have gotten this kind of peripheral view of a lot of garbage shows over the years. My wife shamelessly admits she enjoys junk TV. It's the only reason I was aware of Trump before I had to be.

[Guest]

“ ‘If they do a good job, I won’t cut them at all. . . . It’s probably 1,000 to one where I pay.’”

While you may think this is odd (where you don't pay for bad work), it is quite common in the construction industry...perhaps get educated about concepts like "retention" and how the industry actually functions before you proclaim such condemnations.

Let’s correct this one. You are not in any way parked within the realm of reality to claim that the ratio expressed by Trump is possible as a result of poor contractor work.

As for ‘bad work’ - that’s why you monitor your project, and have means to compel subs to adjust and repair work found to not meet the contracted spec, before you’re turning the keys over to the client. You wouldn’t just fire the sub arbitrarily in correctable situations, leaving yourself to track down another that’s willing to piggyback off of the first subs work... on the expectation that he’d eventually be paid. And if you’re waiting for the final invoice to point out areas of concern, then your project management approach is deficient and dangerous.

Seriously, you don’t need to defend every asinine thing that President Fraudster blurts out. That’s a fool’s errand, and it shows as such. Try to be more selective.

[_Some Schmo]

Seriously, you don’t need to defend every asinine thing that President Fraudster blurts out. That’s a fool’s errand, and it shows as such. Try to be more selective.

If he was smart enough to pick his battles, he wouldn't pick any of them.

[_ajax18]

Well Mitt Romney was a bully who cut another boy's hair in high school. He was also an abuser of animal rights for leaving a dog on top the roof of his car. This was the character of Mitt Romney according to this board, at least it was until he started speaking out against Trump.

[_Chap]

Well Mitt Romney was a bully who cut another boy's hair in high school.

Maybe. Sounds nasty.

He was also an abuser of animal rights for leaving a dog on top the roof of his car.

Yup, not good.

This was the character of Mitt Romney according to this board, at least it was until he started speaking out against Trump.

Oh, it still is just what it was. Let me explain. It's not 'Romney criticises Trump, so now he's a good guy'.

It's 'Even an arrogant entitled unprincipled rich Republican Mormon like Romney is making it clear he thinks Trump's behaviour is unacceptable and dangerous. So what kind of an asshole must Trump be???'

[_subgenius]

As for ‘bad work’ - that’s why you monitor your project, and have means to compel subs to adjust and repair work found to not meet the contracted spec, ...

and now you reveal your ignorance for the construction industry.
For example, one of the "means to compel" is by not paying.
For example, as an architect there are situations (contractual) that occur where my role is to inspect work and approve a contractor's application for payment. Without my approval...no payment. This "review" occurs at any number of phases during construction...because drawings are also "contractual".
Because believe it or not...asking pretty please to have a New York Union plumber do it the way I say is not as compelling as you imagine...but you go on..tell us how it is in the real world, where apparently looking out first for your family and employees is just bad business.

[_Icarus]

Donald Bren is the country's biggest and most powerful Real Estate tycoon, with a net worth over $17 billion.

I'm unable to find any articles listing complaints by his contractors who never got paid for services rendered.

Of course, we're not talking about a plumber not getting paid because he couldn't properly stop a pipe from leaking. Subgenius is trying to trivialize this is the silliest of ways. We're talking about contractors who put their own money on the line, sometimes obtaining loans for funding, and then building tangible "real estate" for Donald Trump because they never in their wildest dreams imagined the man would tell them to shove it or "see you in court."

[_Icarus]

Trump campaign still hasn't paid back at least 6 cities for rally bills

Let me guess, Trump wasn't satisfied with the way these cities provided security?

[_Gunnar]

Well Mitt Romney was a bully who cut another boy's hair in high school. He was also an abuser of animal rights for leaving a dog on top the roof of his car. This was the character of Mitt Romney according to this board, at least it was until he started speaking out against Trump.

As has been pointed out numerous times before, this is an extremely childish defense. The fact that someone else also did something bad does not diminish the seriousness of what Trump is alleged to have done in the slightest! Would you let one of your children off scot free for serious misbehavior because they could show that a sibling or friend had previously done the same misdeed? The fact that someone else has done or been accused of committing similar atrocities or crimes is totally irrelevant and does not entitle Trump to be given a pass for whatever he wants to do!