The Tyrannical Minority

[_EAllusion]

it could if i watched Fox/ Friends, but i don't.

and you say "tons" "at the moment"...geez, you're on auto pilot 24/7 now.

Within a few minutes of it happening I had seen at least a half dozen videos of it from multiple angles. I'm open to whatever explanation for your ignorance you'd like to offer.

[_EAllusion]

Let's see. The argument is that waiting for the right case and focusing on it appears very effective in overcoming the public concern that impeachment is just another example of partisan politics. And it has been.

Yes, if we ignore the plausible explanation backed up by conventional political science research that the actions of political leaders move public opinion, then yes, we can assume that this case of obvious corruption is "the right case" compared to the other cases of obvious corruption. The public just wouldn't be able to grasp how ordering subordinates to fake evidence to conceal obstruction of an investigation into *checks notes* Russian attacks on democracy is bad.

But it isn't lost on me that you have ran after all kinds of partisan issues, been wrong, reframed and assert the issue is not the details in front of us but some big picture war against evil, etc., etc. The Kavanaugh testimony, the Covington kids, do you ever back up and accept you jumped too far, too fast?

It isn't lost on me that you are virtually an avatar of middlebrow takes that consistently gets issues wrong, like the above, out of false sense of feeling fair and balanced. People like yourself are of not shortage in the moderate wing of Democrats, which is why it's profitable politics for Republicans to act out of relentless bad faith.

But the wait and let it come to them approach worked. So. Good that they are the ones in office and not you it seems.

It's amazing that you're able to spin Pelosi et. al. finally pursuing impeachment after dogged resistance, watch what advocates of impeachment say would would happen play out almost exactly, and claim that as a victory for Pelosi's wisdom. Maybe when they finally relent and expand the impeachment inquiry and that, too, proves beneficial, you'll also proclaim that a great victory for the wisdom of acts they had to dragged to by people with better sense than them.

[_Jersey Girl]

Trump goes to the World Series and gets booed. There were also enough people chanting "Lock him up!" to be heard.

I wonder what the tyrannical minority thinks of that. Was that a leftist hoax too?

I was thinking about posting about this but I had decided against it. I overheard some kind of broadcast earlier on the television (I wasn't the one watching it, okay.) And I heard whomever commenting on the boo-ing and lock him up. They stated to the effect "Unfortunately the public has developed this bad habit..." I didn't hear the rest of it.

And I thought to myself, what bad habit? You mean exercising their right to free speech just like the President does?

Yeah.

[Guest]

Pelosi and the House Democrat leadership held off on pursuing impeachment but when the Ukraine scandal broke they pursued it, making it clear it was out of necessity regardless of the politics. I would call it shrewd.

Wow, man.

If you think Pelosi waiting for this moment is going to move the people it needs to move, well... I'm not even sure how to respond to that. Quite frankly, given the way I thought impeachment hearings should have started months ago, Pelosi's move screams "political maneuvering" and decidedly not doing it because it was her goddamn constitutional responsibility.

It's a matter of recognizing for a certain, and meaningfully sized segment of the population, almost everything that happens in Washington is just politics and partisanship. I was swayed to the idea the defense of the Constitution deserved pursuing impeachment as well but in light of how this has played out I see it as being politically savvy. I'm not arguing it wasn't political to have done so. I am arguing it appears to have been a shrewd calculation on the part of the Democrat leadership that is proving to have been the right move. Case in point, the OP. This thread started as a reminder that just because one sees support for impeachment everywhere one looks and polls show it being more popular doesn't mean it is guaranteed to be politically successful. Turns out being a pro matters in politics, too.

[_honorentheos]

This isn't the first instance this was brought forward, EA. The Muller testimony was a bad play that made it unlikely impeachment based on that alone was was going to do anything other than make things worse. This didn't happen without evidence the public needed something to ensure it wasn't just politics as usual. Trump delivered it and the Democrat leadership acted. Too bad you can't give them the credit they deserve for having played that right.

[_EAllusion]

Going from, "We can't impeach, because it will just make the President more popular, because [insert misunderstanding of the Clinton impeachment]" to "We were right to wait for just the right moment to impeach. Gotcha!" is whiplash inducing.

[_honorentheos]

If that's your read. It's a bad one that serves another narrative purpose but whatever. To use a different sports analogy, in the pros the amateur hero move of swinging at every pitch stops working as one is facing the best pitchers in the game, and those who make the transition learn to wait for the right pitch to swing at. Again, it appears being a pro also matters in politics. Trump, the overconfident amateur is proving the point from the other side as well

[_EAllusion]

This isn't the first instance this was brought forward, EAllusion. The Muller testimony was a bad play that made it unlikely impeachment based on that alone was was going to do anything other than make things worse.

The Mueller report contains a lot of easy to understand, extremely damaging facts. It's arguably the most significant scandal in modern American history, over and above what happened with Ukraine. It didn't produce the same impeachment uproar because Bill Barr lied about its contents, mainstream media ran with those lies nearly uncontested for a little while, and Democratic leadership took impeachment off the table immediately for what was found within. If you can't understand that there is a substantial segment of the population that thinks if even Democrats don't think it's worth impeaching over, then it's probably not worth impeaching over, I can't help you.

That Mueller, some time down the road, gave a boring, close to the chest testimony that is bad optics is rather beside the point and makes it seem like you are watching too much Chuck Todd.

This didn't happen without evidence the public needed something to ensure it wasn't just politics as usual.

So, understanding your theory, a long-standing Republican special counsel appointed by Republicans detailing out multiple instances of gross misconduct from the President using the techniques of counterintelligence investigation, with reams of corroborating evidence and testimony from allies of the President, isn't enough to persuade the public that it's not "politics as usual" but the Ukraine scandal is? Sure. Sounds plausible. Or maybe, get this, that Democrats actually acted on one case explains the shift in public opinion even though that's fundamentally a more political act.

Trump delivered it and the Democrat leadership acted. Too bad you can't give them the credit they deserve for having played that right.

Trump "delivers it" on a regular basis. That Pelosi eventually bent to the outcry when she got assurances moderate Democrat hold outs would go along deserves a different kind of credit than what you imagine.

[_canpakes]

it could if i watched Fox/ Friends, but i don't.

and you say "tons" "at the moment"...geez, you're on auto pilot 24/7 now.

Within a few minutes of it happening I had seen at least a half dozen videos of it from multiple angles. I'm open to whatever explanation for your ignorance you'd like to offer.

Translated subs: “I want to pretend that it didn’t happen”.

[_Some Schmo]

I overheard some kind of broadcast earlier on the television (I wasn't the one watching it, okay.) And I heard whomever commenting on the boo-ing and lock him up. They stated to the effect "Unfortunately the public has developed this bad habit..." I didn't hear the rest of it.

And I thought to myself, what bad habit? You mean exercising their right to free speech just like the President does?

Yeah.

Joe Scarborough went off on the fans saying that it's an authoritarian chant at Trump rallies and it isn't any less so at a baseball game (or something to that effect).

I'm of split mind on that. I understand where he's coming from, but there's a major difference: Trump's crimes are out in the open. Everyone paying attention has seen them happen in real time.

There's another critical difference: this was a non-political gathering. These people weren't necessarily aware Trump was going to be there, and upon finding out were likely of a mind to show Trump what they think of the job he's doing and his advertised crimes. Not saying it's the right thing to do, but I know if I were in the crowd, I'd want to take the opportunity to voice my displeasure as well.