Anyone Watch the Latest Democrat Debate? Anyone care?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

What's wrong with that?

Why don't we start with what's right about your position so I can address it rather than end up chasing ghosts?

- Doc

Bumping for Ajax because I think this is an important conversation to have.

- Doc

[_Gunnar]

I consider myself to be pretty high level independent, self reliant, resourceful and resilient mainly because I had to learn to be that way at an early age. That said, I think you are talking about death here.

I had an experience in August where I truly thought I was about to buy it. I'm not embellishing here. As a result of withdrawal from a medication I had been random charting my BP for the doctor who gave me a chance to come off a med. One night when I took my BP it was 185/90-something. I knew it was a rebound hypertensive event as a result of withdrawal. Told JB what was going on and that I needed to go to the ER and I wanted to go in an ambulance so if I tanked for some reason (I was thinking stroke) I'd have folks who could take care of me.

When the paramedics got here they clocked my BP in at 258/118. I was shaking the entire time they were assessing me. The shaking stuff started happening weeks before I got off the med which was part of the reason I wanted off it. Long story. I mean I was shaking head to toe. The only words I can use to describe how I felt overall is "toxic" or poisoned".

I had a similar scary experience just before I was admitted to the hospital for Benign Prostate Hypertrophy which made it impossible for me to pee at all without a catheter. My BP was not quite as high as yours, and I thought I might be experiencing a heart attack due to the pressure placed on my heart due to my greatly distended bladder. Once I got out of the hospital a week later, my blood pressure stayed within optimum range for weeks without the need of BP medication. Since my cancer treatment, though, I have been taking BP medication daily to control mildly elevated BP. I still have to use those expletive deleted catheters, though!

[_ajax18]

My desire to secure the existence or future for children does not in any way depend on what their color, race or cultural background is.

Does it depend on whether you made these children yourself or not?

[_ajax18]

Bumping for Ajax because I think this is an important conversation to have.

- Doc

There's nothing left to say. Wanting to see your race/tribe or even children survive and prosper is a fundamental human emotion that predates the Bible. The only time it's considered morally wrong is if you're white. I think this view is morally wrong.

[_EAllusion]

The concept of "whites" didn't exist until the colonial period and who counts has shifted all the way into the present. Like when your fellow white supremacists debate whether Slavs count.

[_ajax18]

My desire to secure the existence or future for children does not in any way depend on what their color, race or cultural background is.

If a black person wanted to secure the existence or future of the negro race does that make him a black supremacist?

If a Hispanic person wants to preserve the future existence of the latino race and latin culture, does that make him a Hispanic supremacist equal to Hitler?

[_Some Schmo]

Wanting to see your race/tribe or even children survive and prosper is a fundamental human emotion that predates the Bible. The only time it's considered morally wrong is if you're white. I think this view is morally wrong.

No, what's morally wrong is focusing on your own race for advancement at the expense of everyone else.

[_Some Schmo]

While I agree with you that this is largely true, I still think that environment is far from insignificant. Yet I also think some people are more malleable to environmental influences than others, but this is, again, subject to one's biology.

I never meant to give the impression that I thought environment was insignificant.

But here's the thing: two people can have the exact same thing happen to them, but can react in diametrically opposed ways. What is the difference? Why isn't the outcome of this environmental influence the same in all cases?

[_EAllusion]

My desire to secure the existence or future for children does not in any way depend on what their color, race or cultural background is.

If a black person wanted to secure the existence or future of the negro race does that make him a black supremacist?

If a Hispanic person wants to preserve the future existence of the latino race and latin culture, does that make him a Hispanic supremacist equal to Hitler?

What's the white culture you're trying to preserve again? Every time you're asked, you don't answer. This is because there is no such thing as "white culture" as such that you're trying to preserve.

"Whites" aren't under any meaningful race-based threat. It's not inappropriate for people to resist an attempt to expunge who they are based on how they are racially classified. It is inappropriate to use that idea as a sham justification for supremacist rhetoric and actions, which is exactly what that motto you are cheering on does.

Racial categorization of the scientific racist type you believe is an artificial construct of recent historical origin and is not some state of nature thing ingrained in the human psyche.

[_Some Schmo]

Though I no longer consider myself strongly conservative, and consider myself leaning more towards progressive and liberal, I can understand why you consider yourself conservative, though I agree with you far more often than not. I very seriously doubt, however, that the likes of subgenius and ajax would agree that you even remotely conservative! I imagine (and hope) that you and your liberal brother are not so different from each other that you no longer like and respect each other.

Well, it seems clear that my views are not entirely compatible with what Americans tend to mean when they use the word "conservative" but my contention is that most Americans are clueless on the subject, and the Overton Window in this country is so far right, the left edge is the actual center.

What people like ajax and subs say about conservatism are the ravings of the right-wing lunatics, not truly conservative sentiment. Limited government/fiscal responsibility means lean, efficient agencies for necessary services, not opting to skip providing those services at all. There's a big difference between conservative and douchy, except in America.

My brother thinks I should call myself a liberal, given what I think and where I live (and incidentally, he's my best friend). I can't do it. I refuse to buy into the cheap American version of conservatism.