House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

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_Chap
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House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _Chap »

Here we go!

So - Trump and his Republican supporters thoroughly disliked the preparatory hearings being in secret - though that was perfectly proper at the relevant stage of the proceedings.

Now there will be public testimony by many of the same witnesses. I wonder how they will enjoy the obvious consequences of that. After all, as the article says:

Many Americans who have not been following the twists and turns of the closed-door testimony would be hearing the allegations against Trump – and meeting the witnesses, who include senior officials in the White House, state department and Pentagon – for the first time.

That should make for some great live TV!


House holds historic vote passing resolution to formalize Trump impeachment process

Vote set rules for public phase of impeachment inquiry, laying out plan that could produce televised hearings within two weeks


For only the third time in the history of the modern presidency, the US House of Representatives voted on Thursday to formalize impeachment proceedings against the president of the United States.

In a largely party-line vote of 232-196, the House embarked on a path that seemed likely to lead to Donald Trump’s impeachment – if not necessarily his removal from office. House speaker Nancy Pelosi presided over the vote and marked it with a bang of her gavel.

Republicans held ranks to vote uniformly against the process, while two Democrats crossed party lines to join them. The House’s sole independent, Justin Amash of Michigan, voted to advance the resolution.

The vote set rules for the public phase of the impeachment inquiry, laying out a road map for impeachment that could produce televised public hearings within two weeks and a vote on impeachment itself by the end of the year.

“This resolution sets the stage for the next phase of our investigation, one in which the American people have the opportunity to hear from the witnesses first-hand,” House intelligence chairman Adam Schiff said in a floor speech ahead of the vote.

“We will continue to conduct this inquiry with the seriousness of purpose that our task deserves because it is our duty and because no one is above the law.”

Pelosi called the vote a “solemn occasion” but said it was a necessary “step forward” to establish the framework for the open hearings.

“These actions, this process, these open hearings, seeking the truth and making it available to the American people, will inform Congress on the very difficult decision we will have to make in the future as to whether to impeach the president,” she said. “That decision has not been made.”

House minority leader Kevin McCarthy said Democrats were “trying to impeach the president because they are scared that they cannot defeat him” in the 2020 election.

“This process is not only an attempt to undo the last election, it is an attempt to undo the next one as well,” McCarthy said.

For weeks, congressional investigators have been interviewing witnesses – 15 and counting – behind closed doors about alleged misconduct by Trump, who stands accused of using the power of his office to solicit foreign interference in the 2020 US election.

The parade of witnesses was scheduled to continue on Thursday, with the testimony of Tim Morrison, a senior national security council official described in previous testimony as having a “sinking feeling” about the negotiations he witnessed between Trump proxies and the Ukrainians.

Morrison, the first White House political appointee to testify, arrived on Capitol Hill on Thursday but did not respond to reporters’ questions about his testimony behind closed doors.

Trump has denied wrongdoing, claiming that a July phone call in which he asked the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, for a political “favor”, as captured in a partial transcript released by the White House and backed up by witness testimony, was “perfect”.

The desired favor, as Trump himself explained in the call, was for Ukraine to investigate a company that had employed a son of Joe Biden, whom Trump saw as a top political threat. Trump also wanted an investigation that would cast doubt on Russian tampering in the 2016 US election.

At the time, the White House had suspended almost $400m in military aid for Ukraine appropriated by Congress, and US diplomats had advised Ukrainian officials that a White House visit for Zelenskiy was contingent on the announcement of investigations.

If Trump is impeached, a Senate trial would follow, possibly early next year, with a two-thirds majority vote required to remove Trump from office.

In a surprise move that had Washington atwitter on Wednesday night, Morrison announced that he was resigning from his White House post. While he had planned to testify anyway, Morrison’s resignation freed him absolutely from a blanket White House order that officials not participate in the impeachment inquiry.

Still in question was whether Morrison’s former boss, the then national security adviser John Bolton, who reportedly described the back-room Trump-Ukraine haggling as a “drug deal” that he wanted no part of, would testify before Congress.

A lawyer for Bolton told Congress on Wednesday that while Bolton would not testify without a subpoena, the lawyer stood ready to receive a subpoena.

Testimony by Bolton, a Yale-educated lawyer, blistering conservative hawk and expert bureaucratic infighter, could be as damaging for Trump as any so far. Bolton reportedly told aides that Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s personal emissary in the Ukraine saga, was a “hand grenade” that could blow everyone up, and he encouraged multiple aides to take their concerns about Trump’s Ukraine dealings to the top lawyer on the national security council.

That lawyer, John Eisenberg, has also been invited to testify next week before congressional investigators.

The House vote on Thursday implemented a procedure likely to lead to the drafting of articles of impeachment against Trump in the judiciary committee. Analysts have said that Trump is vulnerable to impeachment for abuse of power, obstruction of justice and contempt of Congress, charges familiar from previous impeachment proceedings against presidents Richard Nixon, who resigned, and Bill Clinton, who was impeached but not removed from office.

The procedure allows for Republicans to request witnesses and documents and provides for the presence of lawyers representing Trump at judiciary committee proceedings.

Before that stage, however, dramatic public hearings would play out before the intelligence committee, chaired by Adam Schiff of California, who has been spearheading the impeachment inquiry.

Schiff would call witnesses who previously testified in closed-door depositions before investigators, with an eye on presenting to the public the strongest case against Trump. Many Americans who have not been following the twists and turns of the closed-door testimony would be hearing the allegations against Trump – and meeting the witnesses, who include senior officials in the White House, state department and Pentagon – for the first time.
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_subgenius
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _subgenius »

….likely to lead to Donald Trump’s impeachment

the author coming to this conclusion without any evidence, without any knowledge, and without privy to the to-date closed door proceedings...seems legit!
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_Some Schmo
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _Some Schmo »

I hear the Democrats are impeachy keen today. I'm happy for them.
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_Chap
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _Chap »

subgenius wrote:
….likely to lead to Donald Trump’s impeachment


the author coming to this conclusion without any evidence, without any knowledge, and without privy to the to-date closed door proceedings...seems legit!


We already know a great deal about the testimony that has been given from the opening statements that have been widely publicised and discussed. So far all we get back from the White House are smears against those who have testified from their direct personal knowledge, including a decorated Purple Heart veteran, Alexander Vindman. Read his opening statement here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -statement

The fact that several of the witnesses have defied White House attempts to prevent them testifying speaks volumes in itself.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Some Schmo
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _Some Schmo »

Chap wrote:We already know a great deal about the testimony that has been given from the opening statements that have been widely publicised and discussed.

Well, yes, if we've been watching the news.

On the other hand, if we've been living in an echo chamber, we likely haven't heard the news over the noise; hence, the immovable base and silly Trump apologetics.
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_EAllusion
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _EAllusion »

subgenius wrote:
….likely to lead to Donald Trump’s impeachment

the author coming to this conclusion without any evidence, without any knowledge, and without privy to the to-date closed door proceedings...seems legit!

The Whitehouse released a summary of Trump committing impeachable offenses, then he went on TV right after and doubled down on them.
_moksha
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _moksha »

Any Republican worth his weight in rubles will be engaged in histrionic grandstanding throughout any public impeachment hearings.

Suggested Republican lines:

1. The President did nothing wrong.
2. It's Hunter Biden who needs to be impeached.
3. Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.
4. Lock her up!
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_DarkHelmet
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Chap wrote:We already know a great deal about the testimony that has been given from the opening statements that have been widely publicised and discussed.

Well, yes, if we've been watching the news.

On the other hand, if we've been living in an echo chamber, we likely haven't heard the news over the noise; hence, the immovable base and silly Trump apologetics.


I don't know how anyone who has watched ANY kind of news would argue that Trump is not likely to be impeached. Maybe subs has some super-secret intel that he's not sharing with us, because unless some evidence emerges that causes a bunch of House democrats to change their votes, Trump will be impeached. Similarly, unless some new evidence emerges that hurts Trump's support in the deep red states, he will be acquitted by the Senate.
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_MeDotOrg
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _MeDotOrg »

The Republicans have installed tracks underneath the goal posts so they can now moved effortlessly. They are now talking about the unfair process, but soon the fait 'd compli of public hearings will make those protestations ring hollow.

They will then move the goalposts to the character of the witnesses. If you were a prosecutor, it would be hard to find more unimpeachable witnesses than have appeared before the Intelligence Committee in the last few weeks. When those folks testify in public, it will be the grinding weight of stone upon stone as the case builds for an entire network dedicated to creation of a quid pro quo of arms for investigations. There is risk for the GOP in trying the same character assassination against broadcast live in impeachment hearings. Let's see if any members of the GOP have the balls to accuse Morrison or Taylor of not being patriotic or of being spies.

So after arguments against procedures and character assassination, what else is there? There is what happened, and that is the last thing Republicans want to talk about. How well the facts of case come through the distractions that will undoubtedly be used will determine how effective the public hearings will be in making inroads into mainstream GOP voters. And if there is a shift, all of those Senators who have be studiously avoiding any comments will be very glad that they did so.
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_EAllusion
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Re: House votes to initiate public impeachment hearings ....

Post by _EAllusion »

moksha wrote:Any Republican worth his weight in rubles will be engaged in histrionic grandstanding throughout any public impeachment hearings.

Suggested Republican lines:

1. The President did nothing wrong.
2. It's Hunter Biden who needs to be impeached.
3. Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.
4. Lock her up!


You're joking, but I caught some NPR coverage of the vote this morning and the high church of both sides (tm) said this is like the Democrats' Benghazi. It was intended as a neutral description.
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