The Gender-Equality Paradox. Feminism bad for STEM?

[_Lemmie]

Okay I did more research and it seems gender-stereotyping (not discrimination) is contributing a lot to the gender STEM gap. So what is the solution and how do you end the "gender pay gap" in the US?

Stereotyping that results in a pay gap is by definition discriminatory, but I suspect you know that, given your phrasing.

[_DoubtingThomas]

Stereotyping that results in a pay gap is by definition discriminatory, but I suspect you know that, given your phrasing.

I am talking about two different gaps: 1. The gender pay gap 2. gender STEM gap. Many women have the idea that STEM (especially CS and Physics) is not for them, it is the culture. However, universities are doing everything possible to get more women in STEM.

According to the LA times, "A new study released Tuesday found that 84% of about 220 universities offer single-gender scholarships, many of them in STEM fields: science, technology, engineering and math. That practice is permitted under Title IX only if the “overall effect” of scholarships is equitable. The study, by a Maryland-based nonprofit advocating gender equity on college campuses, showed the majority of campus awards lopsidedly benefited women"

[_Lemmie]

Stereotyping that results in a pay gap is by definition discriminatory, but I suspect you know that, given your phrasing.

I am talking about two different gaps: 1. The gender pay gap 2. gender STEM gap....

I was responding to this:

Okay I did more research and it seems gender-stereotyping (not discrimination) is contributing a lot to the gender STEM gap. So what is the solution and how do you end the "gender pay gap" in the US?

Stereotyping that results in either gap is by definition discriminatory.

[_DoubtingThomas]

gender-stereotyping of STEM careers as male

We are in the age of female empowerment and universities are aggressively trying to get more women in STEM. Gender-stereotyping may contribute, but it is obviously not the only reason why so few women join CS, physics, and Math 55. It may be the case that most women simply do not like STEM.

This consistently dances around your super-cringey posts on gender and sex.

Just one last thing. Life is not easy and I am a guy that is struggling. I do listen (and watch the debates) to find out what the politicians are going to do to help me, but I always hear topics abortion rights and the so-called gender pay gap. Obviously most politicians don't care about guys like me. The news and the politicians are obsessed about abortion and the gender pay gap. Andrew Yang is the only politician that offers good solutions, but he is not going to win. Most politicians only care about women's rights, the so-called gender pay gap, and families with children.

[_Lemmie]

gender-stereotyping of STEM careers as male

We are in the age of female empowerment and universities are aggressively trying to get more women in STEM. Gender-stereotyping may contribute, but it is obviously not the only reason why so few women join CS, physics, and Math 55.

On what specifically do you base that conclusion?

It may be the case that most women simply do not like STEM.

Omg. Really?

This consistently dances around your super-cringey posts on gender and sex.

Just one last thing. Life is not easy and I am a guy that is struggling....Obviously most politicians don't care about guys like me.... Most politicians only care about women's rights, the so-called gender pay gap, and families with children.

Your attitudes, stereotyping, and cringey posts about women and sex are beginning to make more sense.

[_DoubtingThomas]

Your attitudes, stereotyping, and cringey posts about women and sex are beginning to make more sense.

No, what bothers me is the fake news. Would you agree that the feminist version of the gender pay gap in the US is nonsense? The Equal Pay Act was signed into law in 1963, but we still have a lot of politicians saying that pay discrimination is very common. It is not, in fact young women make more than young men in big cities.

We are in the age of female empowerment and universities are aggressively trying to get more women in STEM. Gender-stereotyping may contribute, but it is obviously not the only reason why so few women join CS, physics, and Math 55.

On what specifically do you base that conclusion?

Do you have any evidence that gender discrimination is very common in STEM? Universities and companies are doing everything possible to get more women. According to statistics only 39% of female STEM graduates that are not working perceived "discrimination in recruitment, hiring, promotion" (actual discrimination may be much lower than 39% because human perception is unreliable and because the statistic is selective). 39% is "Not encouraged to pursue STEM from early age". 18% said they are just "Less interested in STEM than men".

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/01 ... stem_0-13/

[_DoubtingThomas]

Your attitudes, stereotyping, and cringey posts about women and sex are beginning to make more sense.

No, what bothers me is the fake news. Would you agree that the feminist version of the gender pay gap in the US is nonsense? The Equal Pay Act was signed into law in 1963, but we still have a lot of politicians saying that pay discrimination is very common. It is not, in fact young women make more than young men in big cities.

We are in the age of female empowerment and universities are aggressively trying to get more women in STEM. Gender-stereotyping may contribute, but it is obviously not the only reason why so few women join CS, physics, and Math 55.

On what specifically do you base that conclusion?

Do you have any evidence that gender discrimination is very common in STEM? Universities and companies are doing everything possible to get more women. According to statistics only 39% of female STEM graduates that are not working perceived "discrimination in recruitment, hiring, promotion" (actual discrimination may be much lower than 39% because human perception is unreliable and because the statistic is selective). 39% is "Not encouraged to pursue STEM from early age". 18% said they are just "Less interested in STEM than men".

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/01 ... stem_0-13/

Honestly can someone give me some evidence that discrimination in hiring women in STEM is a very common problem?

[_Lemmie]

Your attitudes, stereotyping, and cringey posts about women and sex are beginning to make more sense.

No, what bothers me is the fake news. Would you agree that the feminist version of the gender pay gap in the US is nonsense? The Equal Pay Act was signed into law in 1963, but we still have a lot of politicians saying that pay discrimination is very common. It is not, in fact young women make more than young men in big cities.

provide your evidence.

We are in the age of female empowerment and universities are aggressively trying to get more women in STEM. Gender-stereotyping may contribute, but it is obviously not the only reason why so few women join CS, physics, and Math 55.

On what specifically do you base that conclusion?

Do you have any evidence that gender discrimination is very common in STEM?

why ask me? It’s your argument. You provide the evidence.

Universities and companies are doing everything possible to get more women. According to statistics only 39% of female STEM graduates that are not working perceived "discrimination in recruitment, hiring, promotion" (actual discrimination may be much lower than 39% because human perception is unreliable and because the statistic is selective). 39% is "Not encouraged to pursue STEM from early age". 18% said they are just "Less interested in STEM than men".

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/01 ... stem_0-13/

I looked at your link. You say “ only 39%” of female STEM graduates not working perceived discrimination... [but it] may be much lower” but that’s not what your link says at all. You took bits and pieces from a graph and misrepresented the conclusion.

From your link:

For women working in science, technology, engineering or math (STEM) jobs, the workplace is a different, sometimes more hostile environment than the one their male coworkers experience. Discrimination and sexual harassment are seen as more frequent, and gender is perceived as more of an impediment than an advantage to career success.

regarding the percentages:

% of U.S. adults [not women without jobs] who say each of the following is a major reason why there are not more women... working in science, technology, engineering and math jobs in this country: [the two largest entries are] 39%...Face discrimination in recruitment, hiring, promotion...[and] 39%.... Not encouraged to pursue STEM from early age.

“Just less interested in STEM than men” is the lowest rated category, with only 18% of adults perceiving that, and yet that’s the reason you keep suggesting.

Honestly can someone give me some evidence that discrimination in hiring women in STEM is a very common problem?

Your own reference voices that evidence fully and completely.

No, what bothers me is the fake news. Would you agree that the feminist version of the gender pay gap in the US is nonsense?

That’s your own private bias talking, nothing else. As I mentioned earlier, “your attitudes, stereotyping, and cringey posts about women and sex are beginning to make more sense.”

[_EAllusion]

To what Lemmie said, I'd add that discrimination can be subtle and not necessarily perceived as discrimination. Decisions about hiring, promotions, and reputation involve biases that are sometimes ineffable to the people in those decision making capacity. We're all susceptible to it and the hope is people work to reduce biases in their decision making.

Speaking for myself, I tend to overvalue intelligence and creativity in my interviews. It's an active bias I have to work against, because I also need to consider things like dependability, communication skills, coping ability, and a host of other traits that matter to the type of jobs that I interview for.

One common source of bias is people tend to advance the careers of those they find likable. Part of what influences likability is if you see yourself as having common experiences and interests with someone. It turns out that gender (and race) can influence that. If a person is discriminated against because they are a woman, it might not be, "I didn't promote her because she's a woman." It might be, "I work better with [male] than [female]. We just click better."

[Guest]

“Just less interested in STEM than men” is the lowest rated category, with only 18% of adults perceiving that, and yet that’s the reason you keep suggesting.

It is true that most college students do not like STEM. The statistic only represents female STEM graduates that are not working, so the 18% is very very high.

] For women working in science, technology, engineering or math (STEM) jobs, the workplace is a different, sometimes more hostile environment than the one their male coworkers experience. Discrimination and sexual harassment are seen as more frequent, and gender is perceived as more of an impediment than an advantage to career success.

I look more at the numbers, not opinions. The same is true for all jobs, it is not a STEM only problem, in fact women experience less discrimination and less sexual harassment in CS. I will come back with references. And as I said, "actual discrimination may be much lower than 39% because human perception is unreliable and because the statistic is selective"

That’s your own private bias talking, nothing else. As I mentioned earlier, “your attitudes, stereotyping, and cringey posts about women and sex are beginning to make more sense.”

About half of all American women believe they are unfairly making less than men. According to CNN, "One recent Harvard working paper analyzing Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority data found there was no gender pay gap at all, once all factors are controlled for...This Equal Pay Day, like all other days, it's dangerous for women to let media figures or politicians try to build or distort a stumbling block in front of us. It's dangerous to build or distort this block in front of ourselves, too."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/02/opinions ... index.html

provide your evidence.

Yes
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/s ... ies-gop-p/