Hurting Economically Does Not Absolve a Trump Vote

[_ajax18]

Shame is a powerful social tool for sculpting behavior and is a key factor in people behaving morally.

It's a weak tool at best. The strongest motivations for moral behavior come from religion and spirituality.

[_Maksutov]

Shame is a powerful social tool for sculpting behavior and is a key factor in people behaving morally.

It's a weak tool at best. The strongest motivations for moral behavior come from religion and spirituality.

Strange....there's so little evidence for your statement. But you come from Good Christians who thought owning other human beings was cool and godly. So there's that.

And this...

[_ajax18]

Strange....there's so little evidence for your statement. But you come from Good Christians who thought owning other human beings was cool and godly. So there's that.

Do you think slave owners were capable of possessing any good moral qualities outside of racism? Or is your view that if a man owned slaves, then there could not possibly be anything good about him or what he believes?

Must all moral questions be about racism? In your agnostic moral code, do you have any other values that don't pertain to race or racism?

[_Maksutov]

Strange....there's so little evidence for your statement. But you come from Good Christians who thought owning other human beings was cool and godly. So there's that.

Do you think slave owners were capable of possessing any good moral qualities outside of racism? Or is your view that if a man owned slaves, then there could not possibly be anything good about him or what he believes?

Must all moral questions be about racism? In your agnostic moral code, do you have any other values that don't pertain to race or racism?

I certainly do have other values. But. You can never defend the racism any more than the Mormons can defend the polygamy. You need to separate it from your identity if you can. Or want to. It's a choice, it isn't your destiny or your heritage unless you make it so.

[_EAllusion]

Shame is a powerful social tool for sculpting behavior and is a key factor in people behaving morally.

It's a weak tool at best. The strongest motivations for moral behavior come from religion and spirituality.

When you tell your child that doing X is not nice, you might think you're appealing to their sense of empathy, but you are in actuality you are usually appealing to their sense of shame.

Anywho, there's not much to do with your assertion here. It's not true, and I recognize the insult that it is to the non-religious, but it is what it is.

[_ajax18]

The race card is the cudgel of socialism. Anyone who doesn't fall into line with socialism is disparaged as a racist. That's been the go to play of the left much longer than I've been around.

I refuse to be shamed by it. Any chance we can not talk about race all the time here? Let's try..

Do you ever want vengeance Maksutov? What stops you from taking it if you don't believe in an afterlife or atonement. Admittedly the desire for vengeance would eat me up and I never found any satisfying reasons outside of Christianity.

[_Maksutov]

The race card is the cudgel of socialism. Anyone who doesn't fall into line with socialism is disparaged as a racist. That's been the go to play of the left much longer than I've been around.

I refuse to be shamed by it. Any chance we can not talk about race all the time here? Let's try..

Do you ever want vengeance Maksutov? What stops you from taking it if you don't believe in an afterlife or atonement. Admittedly the desire for vengeance would eat me up and I never found any satisfying reasons outside of Christianity.

Oh please. Racism was around long before socialism. What a bunch of crap.

You're a racist. You're loud and proud. I get that. And I get to be disgusted with it. If you are disgusted with my disgust, fine. But in the present environment racism is as relevant as ever. I wish it wasn't. I wish Southrons would get over losing and join the 21st century too. But they keep dragging us back to their stupid violence and ignorance.

Vengeance? For what? Why? Are there people who have hurt me? Yep. I get to decide what to do about that. I divorced one. I didn't have to take "vengeance" on her, she was a bitch and I went on without her. The best revenge is living well, and that's what I did. I made a life without her and I'm better off. Adapt and overcome. That's healthy and realistic.

[_EAllusion]

The race card is the cudgel of socialism. Anyone who doesn't fall into line with socialism is disparaged as a racist. That's been the go to play of the left much longer than I've been around.

I refuse to be shamed by it. Any chance we can not talk about race all the time here? Let's try..

Do you ever want vengeance Maksutov? What stops you from taking it if you don't believe in an afterlife or atonement. Admittedly the desire for vengeance would eat me up and I never found any satisfying reasons outside of Christianity.

It sounds like it's not religion per se that makes you not willing to act out of vengeance. It's your belief in an afterlife?

How does that connect? Walk me through it. For example, is it your belief in eternal consequences? If so, what you are saying is that only the ability to apply negative consequences to your actions is what keeps you behaving within ethical boundaries. If that were the case, 1) you sound like a sociopath 2) consequences exist outside of an afterlife context sufficient to usually provide some motivation to follow norms, 3) people's moral motivation cannot be explained in terms of behaving in pure self-interest unless you think that behaving in absolute self-interest is one in the same with morality. It's not.

But maybe it's not that. There's a few ways you can try out this argument, all of them bad. Let's find out which one it is.

[_Maksutov]

The race card is the cudgel of socialism. Anyone who doesn't fall into line with socialism is disparaged as a racist. That's been the go to play of the left much longer than I've been around.

I refuse to be shamed by it. Any chance we can not talk about race all the time here? Let's try..

Do you ever want vengeance Maksutov? What stops you from taking it if you don't believe in an afterlife or atonement. Admittedly the desire for vengeance would eat me up and I never found any satisfying reasons outside of Christianity.

It sounds like it's not religion per se that makes you not willing to act out of vengeance. It's your belief in an afterlife?

How does that connect? Walk me through it. For example, is it your belief in eternal consequences? If so, what you are saying is that only the ability to apply negative consequences to your actions is what keeps you behaving within ethical boundaries. If that were the case, 1) you sound like a sociopath and 2) consequences exist outside of an afterlife context sufficient to usually provide some motivation to follow norms, 3) people's moral motivation cannot be explained in terms of behaving in absolute self-interest unless you think that behaving in absolute self-interest is one in the same with morality. It's not.

But maybe it's not that. There's a few ways you can try out this argument, all of them bad. Let's find out which one it is.

There are those people who say that if it weren't for God, they would go around raping and killing. I think maybe these are the folks that the red flag laws are about.

[_ajax18]

It sounds like it's not religion per se that makes you not willing to act out of vengeance. It's your belief in an afterlife?

Look I'm not here to fight with you. Why won't you answer my question when I ask about your history of Mormonism? I'm genuinely interested.

How does that connect? Walk me through it. For example, is it your belief in eternal consequences? If so, what you are saying is that only the ability to apply negative consequences to your actions is what keeps you behaving within ethical boundaries. If that were the case, 1) you sound like a sociopath

Well things are digressing into ugliness and insults pretty quick. I'm not sure how productive this can be. No I don't need that kind of motivation in everything I do. But for me during the most difficult situations, I feel like religion gave me more motivation than just abstract ethics. I needed a reason and better reasons than abstract ethics offered.

2) consequences exist outside of an afterlife context sufficient to usually provide some motivation to follow norms, 3) people's moral motivation cannot be explained in terms of behaving in pure self-interest unless you think that behaving in absolute self-interest is one in the same with morality. It's not.

For me absolute self interest can be the highest of moralities when one has an eternal perspective. But I'd agree that if there were no afterlife, self interest remains unsatisfied and the victim is basically cheated.