Res Ipsa wrote:It’s standard Christian Identity propaganda. It’s so at odds with LDS theology, that I’m beginning to think he’s not LDS.
Given his knowledge of the board I've been going on the assumption it's somebody who has posted here before and is trolling because everyone needs a hobby and not everyone can successfully grow vegetables in their backyard.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Whomever it is, it's someone who is conversant in both the dynamics of online Mormon apologetics and the more neo-Nazi end of online alt-right discourse. The person is not faking knowledge of either.
EAllusion wrote:Whomever it is, it's someone who is conversant in both the dynamics of online Mormon apologetics and the more neo-Nazi end of online alt-right discourse. The person is not faking knowledge of either.
Agreed.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
So now let’s circle back to the topic and where we were before our brief historical jaunt:
canpakes wrote:
Smokey wrote:If truth was on your side, you wouldn’t need to construct a straw man implying the argument is Germans never killed any Jews, you deranged literal Neanderthal.
Who's constructing a straw man? You literally think that Jews colonized North America in 600 AD, and you literally post fabricated images and 'quotes' here in trying to claim that Nazis never killed Jews in WWII.
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
Nazis never killed Jews during WWII, but Jews totally colonized North America in 600 AD
Since you’re not too swift let me break it down for you.
Straw man #1: Jews colonized North America in 600 AD
Straw man #2: Nazis never killed Jews during WWII
You’re free to make straw men and fight them if you want, I certainly won’t petition the site-owners to censor you, but let’s just be clear and admit that you wouldn’t need to do so if ANY facts were on your side.
Regarding censorship, Smokey is a good illustration of the limits of Shades' approach that is based on societal standards derived from MPAA ratings. What Smokey is posting is far more vulgar and offensive than swear words, but there isn't as clear guidelines on how to deal with offensive ideas so much as a small list of profane words. The idea of the board is that ideas can't be censored due to being offensive, in no small part because it is a reaction to religious fundamentalists who deal with criticism by trying to censor it as offensive. At the end of the day, there's no neat line between different types of profane communication.
Part of Shades' approach derives from keeping certain forums safe for work browsing. That's one reason why straight up porn has to be kept off even if it sometimes is difficult to determine what counts as pornographic. Some of Smokey's anti-Semitic memes clearly fall within the bounds of something you could get in trouble for if caught browsing it at work just as surely and quickly as depictions of nudity.
Regarding moving his comments, I think Gad is correct that it's a little of dancing with the devil in that if too high a % of the content is what Smokey posts, you're risking getting censored at a level beyond your control.
Smokey wrote:Straw man #1: Jews colonized North America in 600 AD
Do you believe that to be the case or not?
If not, is that because you do not think that Lehi's party should be counted as being Jews?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
You addressed several points of your own invention, but not the one I raised.
Nephi Said (concerning brass plates -- the Bible) in 1 Ne 13:23: "And he saith, Behold, it proceedeth out of the mouth of a Jew
Dare I quote the missionary scripture about the stick of Joseph and the Stick of Judah? hmmm?
Now, you can froth as you deconstruct the word 'Jew' such that it can never mean what it says on the page if you don't like what the page says, but to the extent that such drastic contextualizing is ever meaningful, how much more so does it show that simplistic labels never accurately capture the substance of heterogeneous groups of people over thousands of years of history.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
EAllusion wrote:Regarding censorship, Smokey is a good illustration of the limits of Shades' approach that is based on societal standards derived from MPAA ratings. What Smokey is posting is far more vulgar and offensive than swear words, but there isn't as clear guidelines on how to deal with offensive ideas so much as a small list of profane words. The idea of the board is that ideas can't be censored due to being offensive, in no small part because it is a reaction to religious fundamentalists who deal with criticism by trying to censor it as offensive. At the end of the day, there's no neat line between different types of profane communication.
Part of Shades' approach derives from keeping certain forums safe for work browsing. That's one reason why straight up porn has to be kept off even if it sometimes is difficult to determine what counts as pornographic. Some of Smokey's anti-Semitic memes clearly fall within the bounds of something you could get in trouble for if caught browsing it at work just as surely and quickly as depictions of nudity.
Regarding moving his comments, I think Gad is correct that it's a little of dancing with the devil in that if too high a % of the content is what Smokey posts, you're risking getting censored at a level beyond your control.
I just want to quote this post for posterity in case he changes later.
For a Jew, criticism of his ancestors is “far more vulgar” than swear words.
Discussing historical events and Biblical timelines is “profane communication”.
This type of religious criticism, and not any other, is deserving of censorship.
Someone at BYU in the 90s would certainly be aware of John Welch and the Ensign Magazine.
John Welch wrote this almost 50 years ago:
We are not told where Lehi was born and raised, but we do know that he was not a member of the tribe of Judah. Lehi’s tribe was Manasseh (Alma 10:3), one of the tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel, whose population had been deeply humiliated and partially taken into captivity by the Assyrians in 722 B.C.