Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I, II, III

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_Shulem
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

Post by _Shulem »

Shulem wrote:First and foremost, in order for the church to believe that the papyrus was a genuine autograph written by Abraham’s own hand it would necessitate a claim that the very papyrus in question must be as old as Abraham, some 4,000 years ago! That is exactly what the saints preached and that is exactly what they believed with faith and spirit and did so under the direction and blessing of Joseph Smith himself.


But today's Mormons love to deny such things and may admit that some Mormons back then believe the papyrus and mummies were really that old but that Joseph Smith never claimed that to be so.

Wrong! And, I think it will be necessary to add a little more to my website, Part I, proving that Joseph Smith claimed the papyrus was as old as an original autograph:

Joseph Smith
Times and Seasons November 1, 1843 wrote:
. . . and the fact is, that by the power of God I translated the Book of Mormon from hieroglyphics . . .

Besides these tangible facts, so easily proven and demonstrated by simple rules of testimony unimpeached, the art (now lost) of embalming human bodies, and preserving them in the catacombs of Egypt, whereby men, women and children as mummies, after a lapse of near three thousand five hundred years, come forth among the living, and although dead, the papyrus which has lived in their bosoms, unharmed, speaks for them, in language like the sound of an earthquake: Ecce veritas! Ecce cadaveros. Behold the truth! Behold the mummies! . . .

And to close, let me say in the name of Jesus Christ . . .

most obt. servt.,

JOSEPH SMITH.



In the name of Jesus Christ, Stupid damned Mormons!

:lol:
_Shulem
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

Post by _Shulem »

So, I mean, so, forget Smokey-baby and his Jew friends. Smokey-baby has a bird brain -- pickle brain soaked in brine water from the Tribe of Do-do. It's time to get back to what really counts, folks -- The Book of Abraham! Isn't that right, Smokey-baby? Come to Shulem so I can spank you!

So, I think a little treat is in order for public consumption, right here on Shade's board where original thoughts and ideas come to mind. Here is a sneak preview of Part II where the Two Rolls (Not Joseph Smith's hot buttery squeezable buns) come to play. Later, I'll be covering Smith's mummies and what he said about that. The church today surely doesn't want to discuss what Smith said about the mummies. You can be sure the church doesn't want to discuss the Rolls or the Mummies. But I will! And I'm going to hit Joseph Smith across the side of his head with them both! I'm going to hit Joseph Smith so hard it will knock him out cold and his stupid little church too.

Part II Sneak preview wrote:
<snip>

There are two possible outcomes to what may have happened to Abram’s papyrus after he left Egypt:

1. The original papyrus remained in Egypt
2. The original papyrus was taken by Abram to Canaan and later returned to Egypt presumably by Jacob to remain with Joseph

<snip>

_Shulem
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

Post by _Shulem »

Part II Sneak preview wrote:
<snip>

There are two possible outcomes to what may have happened to Abram’s papyrus after he left Egypt:

1. The original papyrus remained in Egypt
2. The original papyrus was taken by Abram to Canaan and later returned to Egypt presumably by Jacob to remain with Joseph



:idea:

Important aspects involving chronology of the patriarchs must not be overlooked. It is understood that according to the story, ABRAM took his wife SARIAH to Egypt and penned a record upon papyrus by his own hand and according to Joseph Smith this papyrus roll was found on the bosom of a mummy. Abram’s sojourn into Egypt was temporary, a visit to escape famine in Canaan. Biblical narrative informs us that after Abram returned to the land of Canaan at age 99 his name was changed to ABRAHAM and a year later Isaac was born. But what happened to Abram’s original Egyptian papyrus roll? Where did it go and where did it end up? The Book of Abraham informs us that Abram had chronological records of his fathers on his very person saying, “The records have come into my hands; which I hold unto this present time.” Moreover, the records of the fathers were preserved in his own hands in which he declared, “have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record.”

With that said, it seems that Abram was busy writing his own story upon family records to include details about his personal journey leading from his native homeland and finally into Egypt. That is where the Book of Abraham story ends. It’s reasonable in every respect to assume that Abram took his sacred family records with him when he left Egypt. But what of the roll consisting of the Book of Abraham that was written by his own hand upon papyrus, what happened to it? At some point according to Smith it ended up in the arms of the mummy that was excavated in Thebes of Upper Egypt. Pointedly, it should be noted that the tombs of Thebes are hundreds of miles south of the Nile Delta where the Israelites dwelt. In addition, Abraham’s roll would join up with Joseph’s roll who according to the Bible was sold into Egypt at the age of 17 and by age 40 became Pharaoh’s vizier some 190 years after Isaac was born in the land of Canaan — many years after Abraham’s Egyptian sojourn. All this raises huge questions and massive chronological gaps in Egyptian time and space.

:question:
_Shulem
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

Post by _Shulem »

Part II Sneak preview wrote:
There are two possible outcomes to what may have happened to Abram’s papyrus after he left Egypt:

1. The original papyrus remained in Egypt
2. The original papyrus was taken by Abram to Canaan and later returned to Egypt presumably by Jacob to remain with Joseph

<snip>



:idea: :exclaim:

Either way, there is a separation of over 200 years between the time Abram penned his roll and when Joseph penned his sometime after his release from prison. Assume Abram’s roll remained in Egypt, it’s difficult to fathom how it managed to end up with Joseph hundreds of years later! Abram’s era in Egyptian dynastic history is within the 12th Dynasty of the Middle Kingdom and Joseph’s era approaches the Second Intermediate Period. It’s difficult to conceive how Abram’s papyri detailing the hostility of an Asiatic god (Jehovah) towards Pharaoh’s priesthood could be tolerated in the powerful 12th Dynasty and preserved in the archives. The Mormons chalked it up as a miracle under God’s divine providence and publicized fantastic claims. Modern Egyptology would have to fantasize and break with convention in order to accommodate the joining of the Two Rolls in dynastic Egypt under those circumstances. To conclude that Asiatic records were shipped south and buried in the catacombs of Thebes cannot be substantiated by any evidence.

But what if Abram took his roll with him and it was later returned by his grandson Jacob when retiring to Egypt to live with his sons? Would this provide a way for the joining of the Two Rolls? The answer is, yes! If that were the case then it’s easy to imagine Joseph assuming custody of his great grandfather’s papyrus and placing it in a chest with his own records. The Two Rolls would lay side by side as a testimony of God’s patriarchs in Egypt! But this solution doesn’t come without problems, in fact, it’s dead on arrival. Here’s why:

According to the Bible, Israel’s sojourn in Egypt began with Jacob when he stood before Pharaoh and blessed the king. The children of Israel were given the land of Goshen in the eastern Delta of the Nile, Lower Egypt. Joseph lived an additional 70 years and was embalmed: “So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt” (Gen 50:26). The tribes of Israel resided in Goshen until the Exodus. Joseph’s sons (Manasseh and Ephraim) carried on his bloodline. The house of Levi descended with Kohath, Amram, and Moses who assumed authority over all the tribes. Moses led the Exodus and took charge of Joseph’s mummy:

“And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.” ( Ex 13:19)

Here we learn that Joseph’s bones, his very mummy, were carried home in a coffin in which he lay. It’s certainly reasonable to think that the Two Rolls were with Joseph’s mummy including the sacred records had by the patriarchs of old. It’s incredible if not unthinkable that the scrolls penned by the hands of Abraham and Joseph would have been left behind to waste in a musty catacomb of Egypt! The idea that the rolls were shipped to Thebes some 300 miles south of where the Israelites dwelt stretches the imagination to the breaking point.
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

Post by _Fence Sitter »

The Ta-sherit-Min scroll and the Hor scroll were not buried/found on the same mummy. Hor was male and Ta-sherit-Min was a female.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Amore
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham

Post by _Amore »

Shulem wrote:***FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE***

I decided to assemble and craft this work and release it online now as Part I!

Enjoy. If you like it, then by all means share it with others!


Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

You won't be disappointed, enjoy!

Impressive!
You’ve included interesting facts many of us and especially TBMs didn’t know, like...

“Smith was adamant that the word Mormo (Greek female spirit) had no relation to the word Mormon...”

But more importantly, it seems the point is that much of Mormon doctrine is not founded on accurate truth which it has been claimed to.
_Shulem
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

Post by _Shulem »

Fence Sitter wrote:The Ta-sherit-Min scroll and the Hor scroll were not buried/found on the same mummy. Hor was male and Ta-sherit-Min was a female.


Right-e-o, and I do plan on diving into the mummies and presenting that in Part II in a no-nonsense sort of way in which the ORIGINAL Mormons (not today's fake Mormons), with Smith at the head, staked their fantastic claims. I believe Part I coupled with Part II will prove a valuable resource for anybody researching this subject and wanting to just know the facts as they were. We want to hear from Joseph Smith, not Hugh Nibley! We want to hear from Oliver Cowdery, not John Gee. Today's Mormons are irrelevant when it comes to the origins of Smith's Book of Abraham. When Smith talks the talking is DONE! Final. The buck stops with Joseph Smith. Today's Mormons are nothing more than apostates who have thrown Smith & Cowdery under the bus. Today's apologists are brutal and extremely deceptive.

There is no question that Smith & Cowdery claimed to have original autographs, papyrus penned by Abraham and Joseph -- remember, Joseph was the better scribe. I don't think the Mormons gave much though on how the Two Rolls miraculously found each other in the catacombs of Thebes when they would have been taken to Canaan. How Abram's Roll and Joseph's roll landed on their respective mummies is really an oversight from Smith's perspective which is nothing more than pure fantasy.
_Shulem
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham

Post by _Shulem »

Amore wrote:Impressive!
You’ve included interesting facts many of us and especially TBMs didn’t know


Right. Bookmark it and use it as a reference, personal or otherwise. Cut and paste all you like. It's spelled out clearly and it's non-offensive and just pretty much presenting the quotes with some commentary. My intention is to be NICE and quote those who are responsible for the Book of Abraham.

I've cherry picked my favorite references to make the points I feel need to be made. It need not be long. It need not be scholarly. It just needs to show the facts and have a good ring to it. That's what I'm trying to accomplish. Look, Joseph Smith said such and such and the Spirit said so too! Now YOU decide!
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Shulem wrote:There is no question that Smith & Cowdery claimed to have original autographs, papyrus penned by Abraham and Joseph -- remember, Joseph was the better scribe. I don't think the Mormons gave much though on how the Two Rolls miraculously found each other in the catacombs of Thebes when they would have been taken to Canaan. How Abram's Roll and Joseph's roll landed on their respective mummies is really an oversight from Smith's perspective which is nothing more than pure fantasy


Not to mention the fact that for the missing scroll theory to hold up we would have to be missing just the parts from two different scrolls which mentioned Abraham and Joseph. It beggars belief.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Shulem
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I

Post by _Shulem »

Fence Sitter wrote:Not to mention the fact that for the missing scroll theory to hold up we would have to be missing just the parts from two different scrolls which mentioned Abraham and Joseph. It beggars belief.


The missing roll theory is like a bag of empty water. You have a bag that holds no water. Why no water? Because there is a hole in the bottom and when one tries to fill the bag it pours out from the bottom and the bag is never filled.

The same goes for Facsimile No. 3. We have the Facsimile -- the vignette in its fullness. We have the persons drawn therein and the writing which gives a description of those persons. But we see that Joseph Smith's Explanations are nothing more than a hole at the bottom of the bag wherein the bag can never hold the water which he supplied.

Missing Roll theorists are not happy with what Facsimile No. 3 does to their theory and the unlikely possibilities required to make their theory true. It becomes more remote the more you you look at it. The Missing Roll theory just gets smaller and smaller until you can't see it anymore.
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