Survey: Where were you when...

[_Jersey Girl]

There was a politics chat I occasionally joined that I avoided until a few days after 9/11. There, the conversation was dominated by people arguing that the Bush admin was going to use 9/11 as a pretext to invade Iraq. At the time, I thought this was quite wrong - Iraq and 9/11 seemingly had absolutely nothing to do with one another and thinking that the Bush admin was looking for any flimsy pretext to invade Iraq seems presumptuous and motivated by anti-Bush bias- and was not shy about saying so. It turning out that was I was so very, very wrong about that made me rethink about how I source and consider political information.

I almost put this in my post. I had 2 staff members whose boyfriends went with the 3rd ID into Iraq. That was a lot of stress for them to carry at the time but they managed to keep their emotions about it out of their interaction in the classroom, talking about it before class started and after sessions ended, then suppressing it back down as soon as the children began to arrive.

Being with children throughout those series of events made all the difference to us, I think. Our interaction with them gave us at least appox. a 3 hour respite twice a day from the stressors outside and let us live in their world instead of our own.

[_huckelberry]

What might it take to really wake us up again and unite us as a thinking, feeling, and caring people?

Something catastrophic. Like a war.

Sort of like Vietnam united us all in common purpose?

Sorry to be negative but you have asked us to remember dark events.

I remember Kennedy being killed as an annoucement
over the speaker in my Jr Hi cafeteria. I remember that box on the wall with dark invisible waves coming out of it which spread out ripping the fabric of what we thought was normal. It seemed to spread through the rest of the decade sowing chaos. I realize that sources of chaos, civil rights and political hostility social change, were all there ready to ignite in 1960 and before. The assassination ripped the illusion of peace away and the conflicts and forces for change started to boil over.

[_Gunnar]

I was living in Denmark.

How is Denmark? Were you happier?

I was there temporarily as a LDS missionary, and except for being homesick and missing my family back in the states much of the time, I generally enjoyed my time there and the people I met and befriended there. It was not quite the same as actually residing and earning my living there as a Danish citizen and permanent resident. The Danish people there were generally happy, productive and proud to be Danish. I felt safe there, as their crime rate (especially violent crime) is much lower there. The people there are generally friendly, hospitable and compassionate, and, on average, more literate and better educated than average Americans. As I understand it, to graduate from high school, they have to have studied and learned at least 2 or 3 languages in addition to their native Danish, and it is a better than even chance that any random stranger an American visitor might meet on the street will know enough English to effectively communicate with. It is not uncommon to encounter native Danes who speak English better and more grammatically correct than typical Americans do, though usually with a slight, but noticeable Danish accent.

[_subgenius]

Most of my attention was focused on how the crowd was reacting. The verbalized blood lust and people "explaining" what was happening to each other wrongly coming from the crowd were really scary to me - more so than what was happening on TV - which also was scary. There were a lot of boyfriends telling their girlfriends deeply violent thoughts.

[_EAllusion]

Most of my attention was focused on how the crowd was reacting. The verbalized blood lust and people "explaining" what was happening to each other wrongly coming from the crowd were really scary to me - more so than what was happening on TV - which also was scary. There were a lot of boyfriends telling their girlfriends deeply violent thoughts.

That's exactly what happened, you dishonest troll.

[_subgenius]

Most of my attention was focused on how the crowd was reacting. The verbalized blood lust and people "explaining" what was happening to each other wrongly coming from the crowd were really scary to me - more so than what was happening on TV - which also was scary. There were a lot of boyfriends telling their girlfriends deeply violent thoughts.

That's exactly what happened, you dishonest troll.

exactly?...bet.

lets break it down for the succulence of it all:

1. While at an unknown location you admit "I watched the events around a crowd in front of that TV for hours"
So you knew few details beyond the tragedy...but apparently you were able to conclude that people watching the same tv as you were wrong about it all....and in fact, you admit you werent even really watching tv because you "focused" on crowd...but magically still had more information than them.
2. "A lot: of boyfriends telling girlfriends...obviously hanging with the more misogynistic crowd.
3. But in this "crowd" you witness only
3a. bloodlust
3b. "explaining"
3c. deeply violent thoughts
Not any signs of fear or concern...somehow you happened upon, and joined for for hours, an actual angry mob.

But you were just a casual observer, above the fray, not steeped in the unwashed masses...because without even "focus" on events, apparently out of fear, you had it all figured out and stood only to bear witness to boyfriends being arrogant violent waterboarders.

So yeah, i smell it, see it, and can touch your BS here. So insult me all you want, because its all ya got.

[_canpakes]

People talk about how things are so hateful now, but it’s kind of mystifying to me that they think that. In my world there was always low level hate happening.
...
So, why do people say we’re so hateful these days? I don’t see any difference.

Right. As if to illustrate the point, this is in the news today:

Scientists in Oklahoma are one step closer to finding possible evidence of mass graves linked to the deadly race riots of 1921. Researchers in Tulsa used ground penetrating radar to survey two sites and found irregularities that could be consistent with large-scale burials.

The neighborhood of Greenwood was known as black Wall Street. Restaurants, grocery stores and tailors were all black-owned businesses. In 1921 a white mob burned much of the Tulsa neighborhood to the ground, and some say as many as 300 black residents were killed. Almost forgotten by history, the city is trying to uncover the past and heal the wounds.

Just another reminder that we have a long history of hating on, or even killing, our own neighbors.

[_subgenius]

Just another reminder that we have a long history of hating on, or even killing, our own neighbors.

But is the rate of good ole traditional American lynching down or up in this modern era?

I mean (a.k.a. welcome to being an educated adult) it is one thing to know world history and recognize that significant cultural/political change occurs with blood in the streets, but it is another to recognize that your preferred "long history" is waning...or waxing.

[_EAllusion]

lets break it down for the succulence of it all:

1. While at an unknown location you admit "I watched the events around a crowd in front of that TV for hours"

"Unknown location?" Would you prefer I had included a campus map circa 2001 with an arrow on it for your benefit? You know, as one does when telling such an anecdote? Or is the idea of gathering points where TV's are on a university campus just too unbelievable to you because you are unfamiliar with university campuses?

So you knew few details beyond the tragedy...but apparently you were able to conclude that people watching the same tv as you were wrong about it all....and in fact, you admit you werent even really watching tv because you "focused" on crowd...but magically still had more information than them.

I meant it in the context of knowing afterwards they were wrong, but sure, at the time there was plenty of reason to think their "explanations" were wrong. When dudes are explaining that "They did this because they are jealous of America's success" and whathaveyou, yeah, I was pretty sure that's wrong.

Who knows if you remember 9/11? With the relentless lying be so key to who you are, fact and fiction may have blended too perfectly together for you. But if you do remember, after the initial events, a lot of news coverage turned to, "Who did this? Why? And what are we going to do about it?" Of course. These are natural questions. And that's what people in the crowd were discussing too.

2. "A lot: of boyfriends telling girlfriends...obviously hanging with the more misogynistic crowd.

I didn't interpret it then as misogyny, and I'm not sure I do now. That was just the dynamic. Lots of girlfriends crying in the arms of boyfriends while they try to talk them through it. Maybe that dynamic of the those young men feeling they have to "be strong" in such circumstances by offering sense and a reassuring tough posture is a reflection of patriarchal social values, so look at you get your woke on.

3. But in this "crowd" you witness only

Yes, it sure is suspect that I was the only person on this board on a specific college campus in a specific spot in Wisconsin in 2001. What are the odds?

Not any signs of fear or concern...somehow you happened upon, and joined for for hours, an actual angry mob.

Lol. Yeah, totally unbelievable that people would be collectively angry on 9/11. Where were you again? One of Jupiter's moons?

But you were just a casual observer, above the fray, not steeped in the unwashed masses...because without even "focus" on events, apparently out of fear, you had it all figured out and stood only to bear witness to boyfriends being arrogant violent waterboarders.

So yeah, i smell it, see it, and can touch your BS here. So insult me all you want, because its all ya got.

I doubt anyone had even heard of waterboarding there at that point. What I remember was a lot of talk of bombing people "back in to the stone age" and so forth. I distinctly remember one of those explaining boyfriends say we were going to make them wish they never were born. I don't think he knew who "them" was at that point.

[_Jersey Girl]

Lawd I forgot about this thread. EA...do you think there's any merit to what I stated above regarding our ability to recall details of such events while current events seem to be somewhat of a blur?

Is it the 24 hour news cycle and global access?