This is how society dies

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_Brackite
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Brackite »

How could you have a border when the Democratic states of America led by Nancy Pelosi believes border walls are immoral. You wouldn't have several small third world countries on your southern border because you wouldn't even have a border or a country.


Building border walls are immoral when Congress did not authorize the President to build them. The President going around Congress to use the power of the purse to build border walls is clearly unconstitutional.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4 ... titutional

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... -wall.html

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/11/78728497 ... order-wall
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_ajax18
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _ajax18 »

Building border walls are immoral when Congress did not authorize the President to build them.


Do you think the Democratic states of America would have a border and enforce it at around the same level as Obama did in years past?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_DarkHelmet
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:ANYWAY.

I've been giving this a fair amount of thought since the impeachment vote is tomorrow, and then the Senate will just do away with it even though Mitt Romney is totes gonna be fair and impartial.

So, I was like, "Waitaminute. The 17th Amendment gives the electorate the right to vote for Senators." And then I was like, "Well, I listened an NPR piece about the Koch brothers, about a year ago, where those cats have as part of their platform to repeal the 17th amendment. Huh."

They literally have a platform, which requires strategy, which requires a plan, which requires action. They're very serious about this. Like. They're not ____ around serious. So, I'm like how can they get it so it reverts to state appointment?

So, this is how I, as a Republican strategist would probably go about things - up front Ajax is a r____ and you don't want to split this country apart for trade reasons (business above everything, amiright?!?!), but you do need to wage a coup.

A soft coup.

1) Gerrymandering is the key.

As discussed before on this board, North Carolina has some of the most ridiculous gerrymandered Congressional districts. With just a little over 50% the Republicans can control, Congressionally, 10 out of 13 seats in the state of North Carolina. Locally, my state has split Salt Lake county in half, ensuring 3 out of four districts will be red, and more often than not all four districts are red.

Think about this for a hot minute. If the state legislature is unrepresentative, and it is gerrymandering Congress, and it is appointing the Senate - what role do you play? There are 32 Republican states (state senates), that's 64 Republican Senators which would be appointed, which is three shy of a 2/3 majority.

https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_compos ... te_senates

What are the Kochs trying to do? Well, as Republicans make gains in state legislatures through serving corporate interests (they get massive campaign donations which is just a fact), and then use their legislative ability to write laws they'll carry out the hard Right's agenda (think abortion going away).

2) Stack the courts.

So, you think you can just fight bad legislation in court? Lol, no. You fight this in the court and either they've stacked them or the judges rule in your favour and they just try again and replace the judges for the next round. If it goes to the federal courts either they rule in their favour, or its litigated for so long the courts declare its too late to change.

3) Get your people into place.

I can't recall all the names the NPR piece did, but holy ____ the Kochs have people EVERYWHERE. The VP, some of the cabinet members, and quite a few of the administration positions are staffed with the Koch brothers' people. Add key appointments to the Fed, key regulatory and oversight positions at the DoE, and a host of other federal departments like the EPA the coup is actually happening. This is some ____ real deal Machiavellian soft coup stuff.

4) Control the data.

It should be noted the Republican strategist that designed the REDMAP gerrymandering initiative, I don't recall his name from the NPR piece:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REDMAP

has concluded the questions on the 2020 census should favour rural white citizens over others via intimidating minorities into not participating, which ensures census data would be skewed allowing for district boundaries to be further gerrymandered, as well as Electoral College votes, and federal spending to be apportioned favorably to Republican-held districts. I can't regurgitate all the nuance explained in the interview given it was so long ago, but after reading a few articles about the census recently they were right. The GOP is trying hard to get the census to be friendly toward people who support them.

It should be noted the Kochs are involved in all sorts of 1930's era Conservatism:

- 'right to work' laws
- tax cuts for the rich which not incidentally put something like a billion dollars in the Kochs' pockets
- anti Public Transit ballots
- no food stamps
- repealing the income and estate tax
- balanced budget amendment
- dropping Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the ACA, the Department of Education, and all Federal regulatory agencies like the SEC and FDA and EPA and FEC
- anti-union measures

That's all I can really think of/remember right now.

One more thing, and this is actually a shoutout to EAllusion because he has often mentioned the 'Overton Window'. The dude who came up with the 'Overton Window' co-founded a think tank (?) which basically advances ____ policies little by little and who the ____ do they jump in bed with?

The Kochs State Policy Network.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackinac_ ... lic_Policy

How do you stop this? You can't vote them out, the gerrymandering and disenfranchisement ensure their minority has a majority of power. We have that here in Salt Lake City and experience this every two years (CHRIS ____ STEWART). I think Ben McAdams is going to get lubed up and ____ hard this next round. The GOP already has $400k in their war chest.

So. Yeah. ANYWAY. I know I'm ranting like Kevin Graham right now, but we do, literally, have a lunatic in the White House that's literally advancing the Koch brothers' agenda, and I can't really see how we stop it. It's a slow-motion coup happening and it puts a lump squarely in my throat. Hrm... Maybe Ajax will get his RaHoWa after all if the Right moves too quickly. They'd be smart to take another 30 years to implement this because it seems to be working like a charm.

- Doc


Good information. This is what an actual conspiracy looks like. There is no invisible, all powerful "they" who are magically controlling everything and silencing all participants. It's happening right out in the open for everyone to see. They don't care if we know who they are, and they're working within the system to make it happen. We could easily stop it, but they know all they need is a powerful propaganda machine (Fox News, conservative talk radio) to manipulate a significantly large minority of the population into thinking they're the good guys.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
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_subgenius
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _subgenius »

Just curious, is society dead yet?....asking for a friend.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I love how Ajax's dim, dull, cow-brained eyes lazily fell upon the thread, drifting downward as they do since gravity tends to have that effect on grazers, saw the words "border + wall + immoral" and decided to mash on his keyboard until it formed a few sentences without considering, for one second, the difference between one President's actions and the other in context to the statement he presumably thought he was responding to.

The Koch brothers are probably orgasmic right now.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

subgenius wrote:Just curious, is society dead yet?....asking for a friend.


k
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_subgenius
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _subgenius »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:ANYWAY.

Image
Image
Image

- Doc

mmm k
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

k
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_EAllusion
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _EAllusion »

The desire to repeal the 17th amendment comes down to two points. The first is a view that the founders arguments against direct election of Senators were good. This feels very high school debate club contrarian and I can never tell how committed people are to this. The second is that insulating Senators from popular vote makes them less likely to vote for increasing spending to give constituents a reason to vote for them. That’s the Koch interest. It’s not about a desire to have a Republican government takeover, though I am sure some people have noticed that would be the effect and like it for that reason.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

EAllusion wrote:The desire to repeal the 17th amendment comes down to two points. The first is a view that the founders arguments against direct election of Senators were good. This feels very high school debate club contrarian and I can never tell how committed people are to this. The second is that insulating Senators from popular vote makes them less likely to vote for increasing spending to give constituents a reason to vote for them. That’s the Koch interest. It’s not about a desire to have a Republican government takeover, though I am sure some people have noticed that would be the effect and like it for that reason.


All I know is if the KBs want to repeal the 17th amendment, it ain’t because they want you and I to have any control over what they and their like-minded ilk want to do. They strike me as a sort of Ayn Randian dystopian dream coming true. And if they can take control of the Republican party who will then instate their platform it’s absolutely about having a Republican takeover of the government because who else will work against leftist Liberal values?

-Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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