Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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_Icarus
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _Icarus »

EAllusion wrote:This is my single biggest concern with our political culture and what I think is the main driver of the problems we see with contemporary conservative / Republican politics. I think if we don’t reverse course soon this has the potential to collapse our democracy. The threat is that serious.

The thing is, as much as I think and read about this phenomenon, I’ve seen no viable solution. This produces a sense of despair and frustration that wouldn’t be there if there was a clear path to making the situation better. I’ll almost certainly read this, but I expect that it’ll also be at a loss for getting us out of this cultural hole.


What do you think about the recent claim on CNN that FOX News has become a legitimate threat to our National Security?

Sounds banana pants at first, but if you think about it, they do propagate dangerous conspiracy theories such as those about Russia and Ukraine.
"One of the hardest things for me to accept is the fact that Kevin Graham has blonde hair, blue eyes and an English last name. This ugly truth blows any arguments one might have for actual white supremacism out of the water. He's truly a disgrace." - Ajax
_honorentheos
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _honorentheos »

I saw the article from CNN contributor Garrett Graff in Wired on the topic. Did CNN carry it as well or a different story? I'd be surprised if CNN went that far in their opinion pieces, though.

That said, his article in Wired is worth reading.

https://www-wired-com.cdn.ampproject.or ... ecurity%2F
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Oof. I wish I hadn't read that article. :/

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Icarus
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _Icarus »

At some point you have to wonder if our intelligence agencies will start arguing the same point. It is their job to identify and address legitimate threats.
"One of the hardest things for me to accept is the fact that Kevin Graham has blonde hair, blue eyes and an English last name. This ugly truth blows any arguments one might have for actual white supremacism out of the water. He's truly a disgrace." - Ajax
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _Dr Exiled »

It's dangerous to deem those who disagree with one side's narrative as a national security threat. I'm sure Fox News lovers think the same thing about Rachel Maddow and CNN viewers. So, where does this end? Should Fox News be banned when CNN viewers are in power or should CNN be banned when Fox News viewers are in power? Also, what if both sides are corrupt liars, ginning up false narratives to benefit one side's billionaire class over the other side's billionaires, what then?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Exiled wrote:It's dangerous to deem those who disagree with one side's narrative as a national security threat. I'm sure Fox News lovers think the same thing about Rachel Maddow and CNN viewers. So, where does this end? Should Fox News be banned when CNN viewers are in power or should CNN be banned when Fox News viewers are in power? Also, what if both sides are corrupt liars, ginning up false narratives to benefit one side's billionaire class over the other side's billionaires, what then?


Well, it's pretty apparent to me that the success of FOX News is because a LOT of people have felt attacked by the left-leaning press since, probably, the 80's. When I was more Conservative, back in the day, I felt it acutely. It was always subtle, but over time it became more and more overt; I think FOX News filled a HUGE void for Conservatives who felt their issues were under constant attack rather than being championed like leftist issues were in the media.

You can also talk about the Overton window working both ways in the sense if you normalize what was once an unpalatable leftist issue, that issue now becomes the center, and a right-ist issue now is discussed as far-right much to the displeasure of Conservatives.

I'm not sure how much push and pull on the Overton window can occur before secessionist movements actually gain enough steam for revolution to happen, but it certainly does feel like we're a balkanized country at the moment. This, of course, plays right into this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundatio ... eopolitics

and I certainly don't think it'd be a good thing for the world if America would to dissolve into four or five factions. But who knows? We'll see where this democratic experiment goes.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Well, it's pretty apparent to me that the success of FOX News is because a LOT of people have felt attacked by the left-leaning press since, probably, the 80's. When I was more Conservative, back in the day, I felt it acutely. It was always subtle, but over time it became more and more overt; I think FOX News filled a HUGE void for Conservatives who felt their issues were under constant attack rather than being championed like leftist issues were in the media.

You can also talk about the Overton window working both ways in the sense if you normalize what was once an unpalatable leftist issue, that issue now becomes the center, and a right-ist issue now is discussed as far-right much to the displeasure of Conservatives.

I'm not sure how much push and pull on the Overton window can occur before secessionist movements actually gain enough steam for revolution to happen, but it certainly does feel like we're a balkanized country at the moment. This, of course, plays right into this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundatio ... eopolitics

and I certainly don't think it'd be a good thing for the world if America would to dissolve into four or five factions. But who knows? We'll see where this democratic experiment goes.

- Doc


I suspect a lot of this is media hype. Fox found it could make money in a fragmented media world taking one side and CNN and MSNBC have chosen to take the counterpoint to cater to those who hate Hannity and his ilk. I find the Trump supporters I know and the resistance supporters I know to not be at the point of wanting to take up arms against one another despite media portrayals. I guess that could change.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_honorentheos
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _honorentheos »

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52814

Trumpstock attendees say they are used to being denounced, another quality they feel they share with the president. It’s part of why they are protective of him, to the point that they refuse to acknowledge the possibility of a Trump loss in 2020.

Mark Villalta said he had been stockpiling firearms, in case Mr. Trump’s re-election is not successful.

“Nothing less than a civil war would happen,” Mr. Villalta said, his right hand reaching for a holstered handgun. “I don’t believe in violence, but I’ll do what I got to do.”
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
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_mikwut
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _mikwut »

Exiled is right about the media. But I lean toward EAllusion's more concerning position respecting the divisions in the country being serious. What I don't know is why for example so many on this site let the other side of the media get away with just blatant falsehoods and believe that Fox news is the whole problem. The way CNN and MSNBC for years have supported the FBI and CIA respecting the veracity of the dossier etc. is absolutely disgusting and allows for the counterpoint of Fox News to exist. It is like the WWE where you guys are insisting its real because the heal is just so much of a bad guy you have to believe the other side real. The whole thing is nonsense so why support one side of the nonsense? Call the whole thing what it is BS.

mikwut
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_honorentheos
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _honorentheos »

I think this comment from EA from earlier in the thread applies here. And for the reasons that are best encapsulated in Res Ipsa's signature quote from Hannah Arend -

​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

EA's comment:

There's a very important distinction I tried to highlight earlier in the thread between material that is intentionally ideological and material that is dishonest. There are lots of perfectly good sources that are ideological in nature where their biases are related to what topics they choose to cover and how the writing editorializes the implications of reported facts. I think it's a good idea to try to get a well-rounded sense of the public debate by checking in on multiple respectable ideological points of view. That needs to be kept distinct from sources that are dishonest, and especially those that are egregiously so. The main problem with the right-wing media ecosystem isn't simply that it is right-wing. It's that dishonesty and bad faith is pervasive.

Orwell is still somewhat fresh on my mind after having completed the book previously mentioned in another thread. The argument that all news is "BS" in competing ways is a an argument for the take over of authoritarian rule in that it leaves everyone engaging as conspiratorial narcissists. Once one sees all news sources as dishonest, one is beyond truth and falsehood. No one else being trustworthy, ones own biases and sense of the truth become immune from examination. The impenetrable opinion that everyone is being played for fools by anyone and everyone in power is absolute to the point it flattens out every other issue into the binary of establishment or...well, the opinion of what are the real facts according to the conspiratorial narcissist. These referenced "facts" usually don't exist as statements to be presented with evidence because they are understood to be hidden from us by the establishment. So one is presented with possibilities and arguments one would be convinced of the truth of something if only the facts could be made public. But that's just smoke and mirrors. The reality is the apparent subject of discussion is being subverted into the obsessive topic of anti-establishment conspiracy.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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