Reflections on the ?????Apology Letter?????

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_Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

consiglieri wrote:Now that you mention it, there does seem to be an aversion to blaming the people who are obviously responsible for the ouster.

Or are we to think this was done by a rogue middle-management without the sanction, blessing, and direction of the Lord's anointed?



That's certainly been the narrative that Dan Peterson has been trying to publicly peddle for the last 8 years.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_kairos
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _kairos »

Remember when Carly Fiona walked into the HP board room expecting a normal trustee meeting, only to be met by the Board Chair who fired her hardly with a word- she described how that happened in her book! Bottom line - she did not have her six(her corporate ass) covered because she was very loose on getting loyalty from those she got appointed to the HP board and a succcessful coup took her out. She was
Totally caught off guard and went into the sunset.
Is there a lesson here or parallel to Danny's ouster. From above postings seems Danny had a formidable say/control via his Meti and Farms involvement. Did he not calculate the building up of opposition to what the FARMERS were doing? Was the
opposition operating stealthily? Were Maxwell management and policy positions being filled while he was out touch or out of town?
We know the coup occurred and he was surprised
Like Carly that it happened and in a mean sort of way- his view.
So the maestro of Mopologetics failed in keeping his very large six covered by those that mattered.
Just conspiracizin!
k
_Lemmie
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Lemmie »

Fascinating post, Symmachus, thank you.

I have a question about the property* you described, an office and a house, does BYU now own the properties and buildings?

*From your comment:
FARMS used to have an office on the southern slope of campus, in fact, marked, quite explicitly, with logo and all: Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies. There was also Bayt al-Hikma, in that little house on the northern part of campus near the stadium, where some few were occasionally engaged on METI (Middle Eastern Texts Initiative), but there was no Maxwell Institute.

....Everything was absorbed by the Maxwell Institute on its formation in 2006....


I ask because in the Hamblin blog entry I quoted earlier in the thread there was this curious comment, the bolded part concerns my question:
Hamblin:

So, as I said, I have nothing inherently against Bradford’s vision. I believe it would have been much better for all concerned if FARMS had remained independent, and could not be seen as a voice of the Church. My objection to Bradford’s policy is that he systematically destroyed classic-FARMS to achieve his vision. The result is that he has taken substantial resources and donations of time, money, land and personnel that were originally given in good faith by donors to support classic-FARMS scholarship, and is diverting them to fund his new vision.
[bolding added]

Bradford obviously was just doing what was expected of him, but if so, what a land grab for BYU. That must have been prime real estate.
_Symmachus
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Symmachus »

Good catch, Lemmie!

Lemmie wrote:I have a question about the property* you described, an office and a house, does BYU now own the properties and buildings?


I'm sorry to say that I don't know. I know about the two buildings only because I used to walk past them all the time, depending on which part of campus I was entering. I knew about the real Bayt al-Hikma from books, so I did once knock on the door of the little house to ask just why the hell (I mean, heck) they had the Arabic phrase "Bayt al-Hikma" written on a stone sign on the outside. I believe it was Morgan Davis there who told me then about METI (he didn't give me a name, but the pictures online match the image in my memory). It was near the stadium, though I have no idea how good the real estate is there because there are (or at least were) a lot of houses near the stadium. This was before there was a Maxwell Institute.

As for the FARMS building, that was sort of the southern slope, which is quite wooded and has a beautiful pathway that ends near the old Grant library or the Maeser building. I would consider prime real estate, but that is only because of my definition of that includes woods on a hill. I would have thought BYU already owned that, but I really don't know. If they didn't, then I can imagine why they would want to get control of that little property, as everything else on that slope is BYU.
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie
_Lemmie
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Lemmie »

Symmachus wrote:Good catch, Lemmie!

Lemmie wrote:I have a question about the property* you described, an office and a house, does BYU now own the properties and buildings?


I'm sorry to say that I don't know. I know about the two buildings only because I used to walk past them all the time, depending on which part of campus I was entering. I knew about the real Bayt al-Hikma from books, so I did once knock on the door of the little house to ask just why the hell (I mean, heck) they had the Arabic phrase "Bayt al-Hikma" written on a stone sign on the outside. I believe it was Morgan Davis there who told me then about METI (he didn't give me a name, but the pictures online match the image in my memory). It was near the stadium, though I have no idea how good the real estate is there because there are (or at least were) a lot of houses near the stadium. This was before there was a Maxwell Institute.

As for the FARMS building, that was sort of the southern slope, which is quite wooded and has a beautiful pathway that ends near the old Grant library or the Maeser building. I would consider prime real estate, but that is only because of my definition of that includes woods on a hill. I would have thought BYU already owned that, but I really don't know. If they didn't, then I can imagine why they would want to get control of that little property, as everything else on that slope is BYU.

Interesting, thank you! What a nice story about the Arabic phrase on the stone, I commend your younger self for finding out the details. Vaguely in my mind, the little house where we used to gather on Sunday evenings for chats was in that same section up by the stadium, if so, I know what you mean about the neighborhood of homes. The FARMS property, on the other hand, seems to be in a different category.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_WMLdeWette
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _WMLdeWette »

Symmachus wrote:
WMLdeWette wrote:So my timeline is:

1992-ish: METI
1997: FARMS (with a preexistent life going back to 1986 or so)
1997: CPART
2001: ISPART (the new CPART, which took over METI)
2006: Maxwell Institute (FARMS + ISPART)

Given that all of these projects essentially involved FARMS people, especially in 1990s, I think one can be forgiven for seeing the importance of FARMS in all of these. I doubt there would have even been a Maxwell Institute if there hadn't first been FARMS, and I really wonder how there would have been CPART/ISPART without the scholarly network built by the FARMS crowd (for a long time, they were the same people doing all of it). Indeed, even before it joined BYU, FARMS and FARMS associates were sponsoring conferences and work that was not apologetic (e.g. Dead Sea Scrolls), indicative of larger designs. It seems obvious to me that CPART (later ISPART) was an outgrowth of FARMS, a secular sibling, as was METI to some extent.


You are right, to an extent. I was thinking of the Maxwell Institute's earlier name, ISPART, which changed to the Maxwell Institute in 2006. FARMS was organized by Welch in 1979. While you are right that individuals who were a part of FARMS were involved in CPART, ISPART, METI, and then the Maxwell Institute, but for those institutions it was not their involvement in FARMS that was key. It was that they were BYU employees. FARMS was brought to BYU in 1997, but in 2001 taken under the ISPART umbrella, which then changed it's name to the Maxwell Institute in 2006. FARMS was not the key to all of this; rather, the training of a handful of scholars at BYU was crucial. FARMS was tertiary to all of that, but Peterson, Hamblin, Midgley, and others have made it sound like FARMS was the Maxwell Institute when it was only one small part.
_Symmachus
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Symmachus »

WMLdeWette wrote:
You are right, to an extent. I was thinking of the Maxwell Institute's earlier name, ISPART, which changed to the Maxwell Institute in 2006. FARMS was organized by Welch in 1979. While you are right that individuals who were a part of FARMS were involved in CPART, ISPART, METI, and then the Maxwell Institute, but for those institutions it was not their involvement in FARMS that was key. It was that they were BYU employees. FARMS was brought to BYU in 1997, but in 2001 taken under the ISPART umbrella, which then changed it's name to the Maxwell Institute in 2006. FARMS was not the key to all of this; rather, the training of a handful of scholars at BYU was crucial. FARMS was tertiary to all of that, but Peterson, Hamblin, Midgley, and others have made it sound like FARMS was the Maxwell Institute when it was only one small part.


From what I understand, ISPART was formed in 2001, replacing CPART and taking METI in, but not FARMS, which certainly existed beyond 2001 (it was still there when I was there, which was after 2001). As I understand it, FARMS existed until 2006, when the Maxwell Institute was formed and took in all of these. Thus, FARMS did exist alongside but not as a part of ISPART. Is that incorrect?

I am sure you are right as regards the institutional players, and for the early 2010s onward. My point is that the picture suggested above—one where a variety of projects were underway, only one of which involved FARMS—seems not to capture the record, at least of the late 1990s and 2000s. Other than METI, which was always Peterson's baby, just what else was published or being done by anyone under the umbrella of any of these institutes or as a result of their work there until the late 2000s? In other words, what published evidence is there that the existence of ISPART had any results to speak of that could justify its existence at all? FARMS, meanwhile, was rather busy. Within the alphabet soup of METI, ISPART/CPART, FARMS was by far the most active, and I thought that that was actually the problem once FARMS became part of the MI.

From an administrative perspective, you are surely right that FARMS wasn't the justification for the MI, but if we're talking about exaggerative delusions, I'm not sure Peterson is all that wrong for the decade or so after FARMS became part of BYU. Thinking of all those papers published, those talking heads in documentaries, and sponsored conferences under the FARMS aegis, the idea that all that activity was "one small part" seems less than accurate. It was the only thing really going on at the time. Midgley, Peterson, and Co. may seem to be exaggerating from the perspective of how the Maxwell Institute is constituted now, but they had a journal for original scholarship (let's generously call it that for the moment), a review journal, Peterson controlled METI, etc. Elsewhere, ISPART had a project to digitize some Syriac texts, a few things that never went anywhere...and what else? It seems to me that, rather than being one small part, FARMS and the the FARMSians at the early MI constituted the major component of all this, sucking up the resources and dominating the discourse, and that some merely wished it to be one small part (I certainly did).
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie
_moksha
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _moksha »

Lemmie wrote:It is the removal of the last vestige of classic-FARMS...


Classic FARMS may be gone, but...

Image
Classic FARMS on manuvers

Regular campus life goes on.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Lemmie
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Lemmie »

Symmachus wrote:From what I understand, ISPART was formed in 2001, replacing CPART and taking METI in, but not FARMS, which certainly existed beyond 2001 (it was still there when I was there, which was after 2001). As I understand it, FARMS existed until 2006, when the Maxwell Institute was formed and took in all of these. Thus, FARMS did exist alongside but not as a part of ISPART. Is that incorrect?

BYU has an interesting website, where they show organizational units, superior and subordinate units, etc. Of course, this could be just the way it is listed without accurately defining relationships, but it does list FARMS as being subordinate to ISPART, beginning in 2001:
Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts

The Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts (ISPART) was established in 2001...

Assets and Administrative Structure

The Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts (ISPART) was the administering body for the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS), Center for the Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts (CPART), Middle Eastern Texts Initiative (METI), and Research Technology Group. All divisions functioned under the direction of an executive director who acted in the same capacity as a Dean of an academic department.

Associated Units

Superior unit: Brigham Young University (2001-2006)

Subordinate unit: Center for the Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts (2001-2006)

Subordinate unit: Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (2001-2006)

Subordinate unit: Middle Eastern Texts Initiative (2001-2006)

https://byuorg.lib.BYU.edu/index.php/In ... ious_Texts
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Reflections on the “Apology Letter”

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Midgley weighs in:

Dan: You are probably not yet aware that the despicable Doctor Scratch on that slime board operated by Dr. Shades has just made public Kristian Heal's abject apology for the nasty plot that he, D. Morgan Davis, Carl Griffin and M. Gerald (Jerry) Bradford were involved in that led to your being fired as editor of the FARMS Review by email when you were in Jerusalem.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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