Nevada Primary

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I bow to your expertise.

I assume you’re used to doing that ass first since you’re a Trumpleton.

- Doc

[_Dr Exiled]

I bow to your expertise.

I assume you’re used to doing that ass first since you’re a Trumpleton.

- Doc

Of course Doc. Whatever you say. I thought I was for Bernie but maybe I don't see how outside forces are somehow controlling me, forcing me to accept Trump. Those Russians are amazing. If only the Democrats could stop them somehow by not pursuing incomplete impeachment articles that actually increased Trump's popularity. They could have actually had witnesses in the House and forced subpoena battles that might have actually weakened Trump but chose to go another incompetent direction. Maybe Schiff is a Russian asset? Pelosi? You know those who shout the loudest are the ones with something to hide. 4 chan? Russians and 4 chan are the only way to make sense of how people could vote for Trump because certainly the "woke" culture doesn't turn them off or they are just all racists for not becoming self-hating for being born the wrong color.

No, Russia is an easy answer. All republicans are racists is an easy answer. Don't look at economic issues or hating endless war as to why people are attracted to Trump and then counter it. I think he was lying to get elected but he tapped into what the people want - jobs and an end to war - and Trump was promising this via his supposed deal mastery and enough of the desperate people trusted the clown. But let's not look at that. Carry on. Russiagate will bring us home with a big win. Let's avoid the real issues because we need 4 more years of that clown (I mean maga all the way, right?).

[_Res Ipsa]

Whatever, Ex, show me some evidence that this supposed DNC, DNC, DNC thing actually affected any voters.

Bump for Dr. Exiled.

[_moksha]

This whole argument sounds like the devil made the population vote for Trump.

Not saying this is true, but if silver crosses had been attached to the voting booths this whole Trump Cataclysm might have been relegated to an alternate reality.

[_Some Schmo]

I think whatever the Russian influence was, it was small compared to other forces that culminated in Clinton's loss.

Well this is progress. At least this sounds like you acknowledge the Russians interfered. Hallelujah for small miracles.

[_Gunnar]

There is very little doubt in my mind that Russia did indeed try to influence the 2016 election in Trump's favor, and that without that influence, whatever the actual magnitude of its impact, Trump would probably not have won. I think it was just enough, when added to the other factors favoring Trump, to push his win over the top. It still remains true, however, that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by more than 3,000,000 votes.

[_Dr Exiled]

I think whatever the Russian influence was, it was small compared to other forces that culminated in Clinton's loss.

Well this is progress. At least this sounds like you acknowledge the Russians interfered. Hallelujah for small miracles.

I acknowledge that it is a possibility. More proof is necessary for me, though, as Assange's claims that he didn't get the emails from a state actor haven't been tested and Mueller's report has been disputed by former NSA and other intelligence officials. Finally, the amounts spent prior to the election by the supposed Russian government operative, IRA, were only around $50k compared to the $100's of Millions spent be the other campaigns.

Doesn't it raise questions that it is the outsiders like Sanders and Trump that are the supposed Russian darlings? The NY Times puts out this article right before the NV caucus, without any proof, just allegations hidden behind "national security," that Russia is trying to promote Sanders or Trump. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/us/politics/bernie-sanders-russia.html It just seems too convenient and the chaos angle is what happens in every election. Mere disagreement over candidates is now supposed Russian chaos and conveniently, the only way to not be "influenced" by Russia is to vote for the NY Times candidate (anyone but Sanders or Trump).

[_Some Schmo]

There is very little doubt in my mind that Russia did indeed try to influence the 2016 election in Trump's favor, and that without that influence, whatever the actual magnitude of its impact, Trump would probably not have won. I think it was just enough, when added to the other factors favoring Trump, to push his win over the top. It still remains true, however, that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by more than 3,000,000 votes.

Yes, I believe this is the most reasonable position to take. People who dispute Russian influence seem to think the argument is that it was only Russia, as opposed to a confluence of events and circumstances that gave us the tinpot toddler. It's not blaming the Russians, it's assigning a measure of responsibility to one of the actors in the big picture.

ETA: And by the way, I'm sure the Russians damned LOVE that this is even an argument here in the states. This is why it's tempting to call people who argue against it Russian propagandists.

[_Markk]

So, how do you explain why Clinton isn't president?

It’s been explained ad nauseum. I don’t care to jump in the denialism vortex you enjoy again. It’s akin to arguing globes with a flat earther.

- Doc

LOL... "Hillary really won and is the President" as akin to the "The earth is flat." You hit the nail on the head with this one Doc.

[_Res Ipsa]

Dr. Exiled, why do you continue to grossly understate what the Russian government did in 2016? You say you need more evidence while, at the same time, you ignore the evidence that exists.