honorentheos wrote: Are you SURE you aren't a middle aged conservative Mormon pretending to be who you claim to be in order to make people like you claim to be look bad?
Capitalism will not work when robots and A.I. take over.
Still, the authors estimate that almost all large American metropolitan areas may lose more than 55 percent of their current jobs because of automation in the next two decades. “We felt it was really stunning, since we are underestimating the probability of automation,” said Johannes Moenius, the director of the Institute for Spatial Economic Analysis at the University of Redlands, which prepared the report. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... on/525168/
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According to a new study from Oxford Economics, within the next 11 years there could be 14 million robots put to work in China alone.
Researchers suggested that governments could incentivize companies and workers with financial benefits for engaging in local programs to retrain workers. They also called on policymakers to develop “aggressive, forward-thinking programs” to counteract the negative impacts of automation.
“Explore all policy options, from infrastructure investments to training initiatives and innovative welfare programs such as universal basic income,” the report suggested." https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/26/robots- ... laims.html
honorentheos wrote:So in your view the problem is society needs to bear the burden of freeloaders overloading not just social safety nets but funding a baseline level quality of life through magic production of something from nothing?
We at least need UBI and we may need socialism if self-replicating machines become a reality in the future. It is not magic. "See the first machine designed to reproduce itself" https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... plicators/
It wouldn't be a bad idea for the government to create a lot of robots that make things. It is simple. We may need to transition to socialism when robots take over, especially if we have self-replicating robots. In the future competition may be useless if there are too many robots.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:25 am, edited 5 times in total.
It wouldn't be a bad idea for the government to create a lot of robots that make things. It is simple. We may need to transition to socialism when robots take over, especially if we have self-replicating robots. In the future competition may be useless if there are too many robots.
DT, this is gibberish. I'm sorry. But it is.
It's not simple.
Someone owns the inputs whether its robots or a person fabricating things. And those materials have costs to buy them that have to be covered no matter how inexpensive labor becomes.
Socialism - I think this just means getting a handout in your mind. It's not what it means but it's terrible that you seem to support it with this misunderstanding of it. That's what I mean when I say it seems like you are a person playing a caricature of a young former Mormon turned liberal who is actually a middle aged conservative. That sounds no different from the false view of it that conservatives hold.
Without competition, innovation can easily grind to a halt. You want to travel the stars? It is likely being moved forward by competition. That can be between nation states, corporations or what have you. But competition drives us forward. It just needs checked here and there to take the sharp edges off.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Labels annoy me too, Chap, primarily because of the kind of thing that happened in this thread. People make assumptions about you based on their understanding of the label, not yours. That's why I don't call myself an atheist or an environmentalist or much of anything else these days.
I am often tempted to stop describing myself as conservative because people in this country think of something completely different than what I'm saying (and by the way, I don't call myself "a conservative" any more. I just describe my personality as conservative in nature). I suppose it's the rebel in me that refuses to stop, because “F” them. Sure, most people agree on the wrong definition, and it might be easier to coexist with an agreed upon meaning, but again, “F” them. (It's hard to care what they think when they call me a leftist - if they say that, they're confessing their idiocy. Leftist is a lazy, thoughtless word they use to compensate for their ignorance and people disagreeing with them). I stopped caring what most people think about me years ago.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
honorentheos wrote:Also, EA isn't a good gauge because he is giving false readings, not because he doesn't hold libertarian views. Check how often he explicitly, and in some detail, is advocating FOR a given position? It almost never happens. At best you get outlines but usually he's just taking an attack line against a position that he may or may not actually support. It follows the truism it is easier to criticize than to stand for something oneself. It's hard to be a know it all if you have to defend real positions because every position has weaknesses.
I would say this is accurate and fair.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
honorentheos wrote:You want to travel the stars? It is likely being moved forward by competition.
Interstellar travel is the far far future. If humanity ever has the technology for interstellar travel, it will likely have a Post-scarcity economy and fully automated luxury communism.
honorentheos wrote:Without competition, innovation can easily grind to a halt.
Not for expensive projects (like space travel) that do not generate revenue.
honorentheos wrote:Someone owns the inputs whether its robots or a person fabricating things. And those materials have costs to buy them that have to be covered no matter how inexpensive labor becomes.
Okay, I understand. But how does a capitalist economy work with too many A.I. robots? How would most people get a job? The only two solutions I can think of are UBI or the government taking over.
A capitalist economy would work by the market establishing the price of goods manufactured by robots based on demand. Part of that equation is how many people are actually able to have the purchasing power to buy those goods so there is that aspect of it. But that is the wrong question to ask.
What's your objective here, DT? What do you really hope to see happen? Money for buying stuff without any need to work for it? Where does it come from? How much and to what bigger purpose?
Also, don't tell the 1960s that space travel doesn't happen due to competition. They'd wonder what you were smoking.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa