Joe Biden accused of sexual assault

[_honorentheos]

Weird.

http://mormondiscussions.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p1174037

[_ajax18]

The evidence against Kavanaugh was very different. First and foremost was the testimony of Ford who came across as very credible. Reade strikes me as a loony.

No partisan political bias in that line of reasoning. Fortunately Obama didn't get the chance to nominate Icarus to the supreme court. Unfortunately the liberals that now occupy the court aren't much better.

[_ajax18]

The evidence against Kavanaugh was very different. First and foremost was the testimony of Ford who came across as very credible. Reade strikes me as a loony.

No partisan political bias in that line of expert legal opinion. Fortunately Obama didn't get the chance to nominate Icarus to the supreme court. Unfortunately the liberals that now occupy the court aren't much better.

[_Icarus]

Well, I'd like to be honest Icraus, but I don't want to be raked over the coals as someone who doesn't #justbelieveher. #metoo, EAllusion, you, SS, and a few others taught me that it's extremely unlikely that women lie about sexual assault. When a woman says that Bill Clinton raped her we need to believe her. When a woman says that Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her we need to believe her. When a woman says Joe Biden sexually assaulted her, we need to believe her. Where do I draw the line regarding someone's credibility?

- Doc

Nah, I'm fairly confident that if someone were to show me these same examples without them involving any politician I'd say the same thing for each example.

Does sticking his penis in the face of a fellow college student sound like something a drunk frat boy would do? Of course it does. I'd be shocked if someone who was such a notorious drunk throughout his college days didn't have at least a few stories similar to that. If he had simply owned up to it and chalked it up to the alcohol, I'd have more respect for him and then probably support his nomination.

Does groping a fellow college student sound like something a frat boy who was described by a classmate as a "stumbling drunk" would do? I think so. It doesn't take a huge leap there.

Does anyone really believe "boofing" refers to flatulence or that the "Devil's Triangle" was really a drinking game?

As far as Biden goes, I absolutely believe every thing those seven women said he did. I even believe the 8th woman's initial story. All of those stories were consistent. The 9th story by the eight woman however, didn't jive with the consistent narrative that was already established about a creepy old dude who was way too "touchy feely" with other people - not just women.

The newborn claim unleashed on us this Spring, that he stuck his fingers in Reade's vagina in public, is a bit far fetched, especially when you listen to this woman ramble incoherently in her interview. She just sounds like someone who is making it up as she goes along, which naturally leads to inconsistencies. Like when she says Biden simultaneously caressed her shoulders and reassured her it would be Ok, while also telling her she is nothing to him. Wtf?


Seriously though, do you really believe Tara Reade? I don't.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well. In all seriousness I don't believe Tara Reade and I don't believe Dr. Ford. However, I do believe Bill Clinton's accusers along with Mr. Trump's. I guess that's the tricky thing, and why solid evidence, not flimsy recollections (I'm being charitable here with regard to Dr. Ford; I believe she was a partisan hack and this was a hit job), is so important. Whatever the case may be, I still think Biden is creepy as “F” and inappropriate as “F”, and if he's too daft to realize that in this era I don't want him as my President. Well. I mean. Trump. So it is what it is.

[_Icarus]

Fair enough.

[_EAllusion]

When the Dr. Ford allegation came out, you had a plausible story. Unfortunately, because of the intimate nature of the allegation not being conducive to evidence aside from the testimony of the accuser, you also no basis to believe or disbelieve it. Withholding judgement seemed sound. Then, in response to that story, you had major conservative players come out of the woodwork to defend Kavanaugh with rape apologetics. That was unpleasant, but it's not Kavanaugh's fault if Dennis Prager has some ugly things to say about rape.

Then, and this is the key part, Kavanaugh and his team came to his own defense with straight-up mendacity and culture war grievance while elected Republicans ran interference for him. At that point, it started to seem reasonable that there's a good chance he did it and therefore it became reasonable to oppose a Supreme Court nominee who had a decent chance of lying about raping someone.

The Reade allegation right now is sort of in that zone where it's hard to believe or disbelieve her. There are some specific reasons to doubt her story that weren't present in Ford's case, but on the other hand, unlike Kavanaugh, Biden has known history of allegations of sexually harassing behavior more akin to the first version of her allegation. I take that as a wash. It wouldn't be surprising if it's true, but there's just not enough to persuade at this point.

There are, of course, partisan hypocrisies in how certain people are covering this which are fair game to criticize, but the idea that anyone who thought Dr. Ford was likely telling the truth simply thinks that you must "believe women" is a strawman.

[_Icarus]

Yeah I think "believe women" became just a convenient hashtag kinda like "black lives matter."

[_EAllusion]

[quote=Icarus post_id=1221942 time=1587139147 user_id=19355]
Yeah I think "believe women" became just a convenient hashtag kinda like "black lives matter."
[/quote]

People who say believe women non-ironically are a mixture of people who really do think that allegations of sexual assault from women deserve the presumption of truth (thus logically presuming the accused to be guilty) and people who just think you should take allegations of sexual assault from women seriously rather than being dismissive of them.

It's also loved to be used as a strawman against anyone who thinks a specific allegation likely true. As if the only reason you could think that is by assuming female accusations must be true. So you can't think that Kavanaugh seems guilty because he's using deception to defend himself while Ford's story seems plausible and the smear-campaign against her unreasonable. You can only think he seems guilty because you believe female accusers no matter what.

[Guest]

I wish Andrew Cuomo was running. He owns Trump

https://Twitter.com/atrupar/status/1251 ... 64704?s=20