Radio Free Mormon: Magic and the Book of Mormon (We Need Dan Vogel's Help!)

[_Shulem]

Are you serious? Did he really make this genuine prophecy 10 years ago?

I was being slaphappy in saying that. Consiglieri was still an apologist during that particular discussion and was trying to see the big picture through the eyes of Mormons lenses -- but the the Mormon lens provide limited view and blinds one to the truth.

Consiglieri is really on a roll right now. His passion is aflame, not that he hasn't always had passion, but it's bearing fruit. All his podcasts are really good. The one about BYU covering up is still boiling in a pot and we are waiting for that to boil over. But the HAT trick is a bomb. We may assume that Consiglieri knew it was important and perhaps he even knew it was a bomb when he was doing the podcast (he hints of that) but I don't think he really knew just what he had pulled off because he has opened the way for the Book of Mormon house of cards to fall. Consiglieri deserves a steady applause! PASSION baby, passion. That is how great things are pulled off.

Congratulations, Consiglieri, you're making history. You are also one of the most notorious anti-Mormons anti-The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints enemies. Your name will figure prominently in Church councils when they try and figure out what to do with you.

I'm really excited about all this. In my view this is much bigger than Late War. Consiglieri has given us the key to unravel the mystery of the translation of the Book of Mormon. It's a new dawn or as Kishy implies exciting times.

[Guest]

Ah yes, brilliantly surmised and described, RFM.

I assume you’ve seen An Honest Liar about the great, er, the amazing James Randi? I saw that right near the end of my believing four years ago, and I remember thinking how he would have easily exposed Joseph Smith back in the day, as he did with Uri Geller and Peter Popoff.

I had postulated back then about paper scraps in the hat, and recall getting pushback about how they could be read with his face in the darkness of the hat. My speculation was that he made a show of slowly putting his face in, but that he could have read a sentence from inside the hat as he was moving his face inside the hat. I like the idea of translucent material better, but still think the other way is possible. Magic tricks are especially astounding when we discover how simple they usually are. It’s as simple as having one assumption (you can’t read with your head stuffed inside a dark hat), and then realizing there’s an easy answer (you can read what’s in the hat before you stuff your head inside it). And with that theory, a sheet of paper in the inner lining of the hat instead of the bottom would make more sense, to read in better light as you move your face into it (and/or out of it).

Regardless, I assume he had a stash of pages/notes nearby, which the occasional break would afford him the ability to switch out. Written by Joseph Smith, or Lucy/Hirum, or Spalding/Rigdon... doesn’t matter too much. But I agree with RFM that some notes or outline was very likely necessary.

I also love Kish’s thought about the “Caractors” being a specific language that Joseph Smith may have used for the notes. And heck, the portion of those given to Martin Harris to take to Anthon could have been from a scrap that wasn’t burned. It would also provide an out for him if he had been caught, as he could say that he had copied some of those notes from the plates and put them in his hat to carry around safely... but not being in proper English (deformed English), they wouldn’t be an immediate giveaway.

[_honorentheos]

We have a choice. Either smith really did translate like he said through miraculous means or he simply made up the story with his head in the hat either through his own genius or more likely using notes in the bottom of the hat. I opt for the notes and the hat trick. I opt that Oliver was duped! Three cheers for Radio Free Mormon our HERO!

I think there are more options. The evidence that Oliver arriving changes the pace of production is too compelling for me to accept he was being duped. Having listened to the podcast it seems like an interesting explanation for what others were observing when shown the game of translation. But once we reinsert the other evidence such as the witness testimonies and, again, how engaged and activated the enterprise became with Oliver's involvement suggests to me Oliver and the Whitmer family were participants rather than dupes. Using the magic example, they seem to all be in on the trick to explain all of the evidence. Harris was the mark.

Regardless, as long as the evidence is so heavily weighted in favor of it being a product of the 19th century over ancient history it seems more like sport to guess at how the "trick" was pulled off.

[_honorentheos]

I don't think the head in hat translation technique was the norm. It was a show used when spectators were around. I strongly suspect most of the time Oliver and Joseph were just talking across a table. Again, I have to believe the Whitmer family knew it was a hoax.

[_Grudunza]

Oh ha, I just got to the part in the second podcast where you talk about An Honest Liar. So yeah, I figured you’d have seen that. :)

[Guest]

In principle, the entire process of translation is a misdirection of which the hat trick is merely a part if one assumes it was a con.

Assuming the purpose was not that of translating an ancient, divinely inspired text but a con, what was the purpose of the con? Obviously to make money. So why the trick? Because a fictional story about Israelites coming to the Americas has a limited market and might not get published while one sold as being a translation of a real historic record almost by definition commands the same market share plus more.

So why put on the trick? Because he needs backing. He tries his hand at it for a while with marginal success, using multiple others as scribed until the incident with the lost manuscript pages and Anton excursion fail to produce good results. After a pause and resuming with just his wife, he is gifted a willing and capable partner in Oliver Cowdrey. Oliver had convienently talked with David Whitmer before going to see Joseph and find out about the business of gold plates. Once he arrives with Joseph the process of production takes off. They go back to the Whitmer house to be able to finish the work and in the process use trick after trick to reel in the needed mark who had the money needed for publication - Martin Harris, who was being lost as a gullible dupe after Smiths initial efforts fizzled out into quasi-failure. This includes Joseph, Oliver and David faking the visit of Moroni and the plates to get Harris to sign on after much urging and manipulation from Smith when he failed to be able to participate in the grand vision with them.

Yeah, it's all a trick. The hat being a prop for the show of translation when the audience isn't in on the trick makes sense. But the idea it was all needed to trick everyone but Joseph seems to still be falling victim to the misdirection and following a hand wave to the left while the right is dropping something off in a pocket ...

[_huckelberry]

I find it easy to see the hat as theater prop but I find it difficult to believe anything could be seen in the bottom of the hat. Perhaps a flashlight would help. A candle would burn the tip of ones nose.

Notes could be referred to before hand. Stories could be practiced for years before hand. Some portions could have been written perhaps even by some helpers and read when the head and hat show was not in view.

[Guest]

I find it easy to see the hat as theater prop but I find it difficult to believe anything could be seen in the bottom of the hat. Perhaps a flashlight would help. A candle would burn the tip of ones nose.

Notes could be referred to before hand. Stories could be practiced for years before hand. Some portions could have been written perhaps even by some helpers and read when the head and hat show was not in view.

Evidently Bill Reel has a white hat and you can see when you put your face in it. I can imagine, after giving your eyes time to adjust to the dimness, it would become quite easy to read the notes at the bottom, especially if he had a candle nearby. I searched online for images of white stovepipe hats and the only white one I saw was a modern one for fancy dress. They were usually dark brown or black. Joseph Smith was heavily into the occult. In true magical tradition he wore a black coat and used a black horse when he went out to collect the plates on the autumnal equinox.

One of the apologists thinks his hat may have been porous to allow him to read off the stone for long periods of time. More porous = more light.

I know this is circumstantial but in totality I find it utterly compelling.

[_Physics Guy]

In general it seems to me that one should be pretty agnostic about reconstructing tricks and illusions from the past. Taking any reconstructed trick too seriously may play into the Mormon apologists' hand by accepting the burden of demonstrating exactly how Smith could have faked everything. The point I see in theories like this translucent white hat trick is not to be sure that we've pinned down how Smith faked things, but just to show another one of the many ways the things could have been faked.

With that said, it would indeed be pretty suspicious if the hat with the seer stone should turn out to have been white. A white hat can work a bit like a one-way mirror or mirror sunglasses. From outside the material seems to be obviously opaque because you can't see into it at all, if the room is bright; but that's just because it reflects much more light from the bright outside than it allows through from the dark inside. If you sit with a light in a dark room and cover the light with a white hat, though, you see how brightly the light will glow through the hat. That much light will also come into the hat from outside.

The hat would still have been dim enough inside though, I guess, that it would have been easier to read in there once one's eyes had adapted to the dimness. That adaptation process would take many minutes—it's not just pupil dilation. Every time Smith raised his face from the hat and looked around in full daylight, the adaptation would be lost and would have to begin again. if Smith were to pop his head out of the hat frequently in order to recite, the whole process would be very slow. If on the other hand he kept his head in the hat and recited from inside there, or if he made a point of shutting his eyes tightly whenever he looked up from the hat, then he could probably have read a note hidden inside the hat easily enough that he would quickly have finished reading it. Then he would have had to insert or uncover a new note to read next.

I think if I myself were using a translucent hat to conceal the fact that I was consulting written notes, I would not try to read my whole story word-for-word from the notes. Instead I would only use jotted point-form notes to remind myself of the outline of my story, and make up the precise wording on the fly. The outline notes would allow me to reel off a tale that was long and complicated enough to be impressive for an improvised yarn, while the improvised wording would allow me to produce much more text than I could possibly read without it being obvious that I was reading from pages of text.

[_Shulem]

By the way, a great place to hide the notes or text off of which Joseph Smith might of been reading, would be........

under the cloth with the "plates" themselves.

I like how you're thinking and revisiting the crime scene in a different light in view of this new theory. I think you may find it rewarding if you go back and revisit the whole story and think about things using RFM's theory to uncover or explain things. You might just discover or come up with something amazing. We need smart people thinking about this. If the HAT trick really is the method in which Smith pulled off the translation (dictation) then there are clues to that effect. The time has come for the Book of Mormon to meet its destiny.

I have a feeling that the 114 lost pages and the Martin Harris experience needs to be carefully gone over again using the HAT trick as a template to uncover clues that when magnified will take on a whole new meaning.