Flynn Walks
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Re: Flynn Walks
You're an idiot. You make excuses for criminals who admit to their crimes while thinking innocent people should be jailed because Brietbart convinces smaller minds that they're guilty of something. The rule of law means nothing to people like you. And going after Obama would be the surest way to lose reelection.
I mean seriously, Flynn lied about lying because he didn't have money to fight in court? This is about the dumbest thing I've heard all week.
I mean seriously, Flynn lied about lying because he didn't have money to fight in court? This is about the dumbest thing I've heard all week.
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Re: Flynn Walks
Ajax's position both that Flynn's crimes do not count because they were discovered in the context of an illegitimate investigation, but also they don't count because that was a false, coerced confession due to financial pressure. Also, Flynn repeatedly apologizing for his crimes and publicly invoking his faith in God as a case for redemption? More coercion. Flynn did nothing wrong, but also Flynn was only caught doing something wrong via an unfair process, so that doesn't count. They're both bad in this case, but normally you'd pick one and run with it; not do both.
Shorter Ajax -
If you don't let my political heroes get away with committing crimes, we'll put you in jail. Deal?
Shorter Ajax -
If you don't let my political heroes get away with committing crimes, we'll put you in jail. Deal?
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Re: Flynn Walks
Ajax, your comment is exactly the thing David Brooks is mourning. It's a break down of our ability to trust our civil institutions necessary for democracy to exist.ajax18 wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 1:47 pmDemocrats will start to understand this when they see Obama in a striped jump suit, a chainlink belt, laceless shower slippers, and handcuffs. Until then, they will continue to unapologetically use the liberal appointees from the deep state to attempt to reverse the results of the 2016 election by any means necessary.The second thing is that the Justice Department has become a hyperpartisan institution, and we can't have faith in its judgments.
Do you not understand the comment spans parties, and is taken to a new extreme now under Trump? And you're advocating it get even worse?
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Re: Flynn Walks
I don't think the efforts of the political minority nor the deep state to undo the election of 2016 is an example of preserving democracy.Ajax, your comment is exactly the thing David Brooks is mourning. It's a break down of our ability to trust our civil institutions necessary for democracy to exist.
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Re: Flynn Walks
Step back and stop writing in propaganda from the anti-whatever. Its like talking to a Maoist during the cultural revolution.
The comment is simple - using the justice system for political purposes undermines trust, which undermines democracy.
You don't trust the justice department when it's ran by Democrats but do when ran by Republicans. So you are excited by the prospect of seeing it used to go after Obama, a political villian in your circles. That's using the justice department for political purposes.
That is exactly what David Brooks was mourning, and apparently fears seeing get worse.
The comment is simple - using the justice system for political purposes undermines trust, which undermines democracy.
You don't trust the justice department when it's ran by Democrats but do when ran by Republicans. So you are excited by the prospect of seeing it used to go after Obama, a political villian in your circles. That's using the justice department for political purposes.
That is exactly what David Brooks was mourning, and apparently fears seeing get worse.
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Re: Flynn Walks
Maybe I've misunderstood you but your idea of preserving democracy is to get rid of Trump as you've said in the past. You don't define democracy as majority rule unless the majority agrees with you or meets your moral standard. If I've misjudged you, than I apologize but this reasoning surely holds for people like EAllusion and Icarus.The comment is simple - using the justice system for political purposes undermines trust, which undermines democracy.
The new lows to which our institutions like the IRS and the FBI have sunk in becoming partisan political weapons is a precedent set by Democrats. You're outraged at Obama being put in jail yet nobody has blinked at the thought of putting Trump or anyone who voted for him in jail for basically no other reason than disagreeing with their political opinion.
Last edited by ICCrawler - ICjobs on Sat May 09, 2020 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flynn Walks
There are things Trump has done that deserved oversight by Congress, especially attempting to circumvent that oversight role. I'm assuming if you care about American style Democracy you agree that Congress should have that role and exercise it regardless of who is in power.
I think the impeachment inquiry and subsequent actual impeachment were justified. Trump attempted to use a foriegn government to attack a political rival. His defense was essentially as President doing so was ok. That is BS. It wouldn't matter if a Democrat or Republican did that, in my opinion, it would demand congressional censure of some kind and public backlash for having done so.
Do I agree that Trump should be subjected to constant investigations and impeachment attempts? No. EA is an anarchist undermining the things he claims to be defending when he says as much. Moksha is a dumb idiot who can't remember he wanted Barr sent to prison before actually investigating the case for sending him to prison. There are plenty of dumb, anti-democratic hypocrites here. I can be one, too. And you are being one here.
I think the impeachment inquiry and subsequent actual impeachment were justified. Trump attempted to use a foriegn government to attack a political rival. His defense was essentially as President doing so was ok. That is BS. It wouldn't matter if a Democrat or Republican did that, in my opinion, it would demand congressional censure of some kind and public backlash for having done so.
Do I agree that Trump should be subjected to constant investigations and impeachment attempts? No. EA is an anarchist undermining the things he claims to be defending when he says as much. Moksha is a dumb idiot who can't remember he wanted Barr sent to prison before actually investigating the case for sending him to prison. There are plenty of dumb, anti-democratic hypocrites here. I can be one, too. And you are being one here.
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Re: Flynn Walks
Honorentheos has a terminal case of both-sideism and the more extreme you choose to be Ajax, the more he will move your direction because he sees the mid-point between two positions as inherently the most reasonable. Want more? Just advocate for his execution. He'll agree that, regrettably, putting him in jail is the very serious person's position.
Donald Trump should be subject to constant investigations because he engages in constant malfeasance of which there is ample evidence to justify further investigation. You don't fail to investigate just because he's extremely corrupt. Opposing it because constant investigation looks partisan gives a pretty easy back-door into lawlessness. Just constantly abuse power and you're home free. This, regrettably, is the actual state of affairs in American politics in part because a small group of Democrats with a lot of power either agree or think it is sound political strategy to pretend to agree. (Probably the latter). And that, ultimately, is why Trump's co-conspirators can have legal consequences for slam-dunk criminality removed. A year or two ago and that would've produced riots, but fortunately, relentlessly pushing the line has made the Honors of the world more willing to accept more and more. When where this is going ends up at its destination, chances are he'll personally be fine, so the stakes are academic and distant. If you dimly remember the warnings of normalization, this is what it looks like.
Donald Trump should be subject to constant investigations because he engages in constant malfeasance of which there is ample evidence to justify further investigation. You don't fail to investigate just because he's extremely corrupt. Opposing it because constant investigation looks partisan gives a pretty easy back-door into lawlessness. Just constantly abuse power and you're home free. This, regrettably, is the actual state of affairs in American politics in part because a small group of Democrats with a lot of power either agree or think it is sound political strategy to pretend to agree. (Probably the latter). And that, ultimately, is why Trump's co-conspirators can have legal consequences for slam-dunk criminality removed. A year or two ago and that would've produced riots, but fortunately, relentlessly pushing the line has made the Honors of the world more willing to accept more and more. When where this is going ends up at its destination, chances are he'll personally be fine, so the stakes are academic and distant. If you dimly remember the warnings of normalization, this is what it looks like.
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Re: Flynn Walks
You see, Ajax? Those who aren't with us are against us is the language of extremists, not the language of principled position and reasoned consideration. EA has put me in a box that he is comfortable using to stereotype my comments, and is essentially playing his part as your mirrored political opponent. You're racist, bigoted, not conservative but just Right, and someone poorly read on issues. Yeah, that last bit is true. EA is an anti-authority individualist, elitist, not liberal but just Left (claiming libertarian positions is helpful to remain disdainful of the liberal Madisonite while agreeing with them in broad strokes), and well read almost to a fault.
This case with Flynn involves an abuse of law enforcement authority a version of EA from the past would likely have agreed was a problem. But this involves other factors so principles be damned. Now days he's a committed warrior of the proletariat...or at least an elitist agitator egging on the proletariat ajaxs' of the world.
This case is complicated in that it looks like some dumb things were done that resulted in a bad person being recommended to go free. I heard about the evidence that appears to have influenced this a couple of weeks ago, and it was clear then that it put a wrinkle in the case that opened doors for Flynn's lawyers. I think it's necessary and responsible to avoid reducing it down to "Flynn's bad cuz he lied and admitted it, so nothing else matters here." The FBI does appear to have used the case they had initiated closing to extract lies from Flynn that were used as the leverage for his plea deal. It sucks but it's what it is.
It's anarchists and authoritarians who sell oversimplified incendiary assertions and sound bites that's are fueling the destruction of our way of life. You and EA aren't nearly as different as you think, and in this thread you both pretty much suck for the same reasons.
This case with Flynn involves an abuse of law enforcement authority a version of EA from the past would likely have agreed was a problem. But this involves other factors so principles be damned. Now days he's a committed warrior of the proletariat...or at least an elitist agitator egging on the proletariat ajaxs' of the world.
This case is complicated in that it looks like some dumb things were done that resulted in a bad person being recommended to go free. I heard about the evidence that appears to have influenced this a couple of weeks ago, and it was clear then that it put a wrinkle in the case that opened doors for Flynn's lawyers. I think it's necessary and responsible to avoid reducing it down to "Flynn's bad cuz he lied and admitted it, so nothing else matters here." The FBI does appear to have used the case they had initiated closing to extract lies from Flynn that were used as the leverage for his plea deal. It sucks but it's what it is.
It's anarchists and authoritarians who sell oversimplified incendiary assertions and sound bites that's are fueling the destruction of our way of life. You and EA aren't nearly as different as you think, and in this thread you both pretty much suck for the same reasons.
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Re: Flynn Walks
Oh, we agree here. I just draw the line between investigations and impeachment investigations. And the less fanfare political grandstanding involved the more I support them. Your idea seems political in nature - to create a mechanism in Congress that feeds a constant drip of negative news about Trump into the public information diet. As a legitimate Congressional action that sounds dubious. As a political calculation it is almost guaranteed to backfire and fees the narrative on the right that it is just Democrats trying to overturn the election. It's wrong and dumb for political reasons. Right in ajax and subbies occupancy.EAllusion wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 7:49 pmDonald Trump should be subject to constant investigations because he engages in constant malfeasance of which there is ample evidence to justify further investigation. You don't fail to investigate just because he's extremely corrupt. Opposing it because constant investigation looks partisan gives a pretty easy back-door into lawlessness.
Last edited by Guest on Sat May 09, 2020 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.