The coronavirus spread updated in real time

[_ajax18]

Only, the infection doesn't necessarily end with them. If they get infected, they might infect someone else through no choice of their own.

How do I infect someone if that person is staying home?

[_Jersey Girl]

Only, the infection doesn't necessarily end with them. If they get infected, they might infect someone else through no choice of their own.

How do I infect someone if that person is staying home?

Are the people at home eating food?

[_EAllusion]

[quote]How do I infect someone if that person is staying home?[/quote]

It's kinda funny how much the subtexts of your posts are contempt for your family.

Aside from the people one would think you wouldn't forget about, people occasionally have to brave going outside. The idea is that people keep that to a minimum by only doing what is necessary. That's why grocery stores are open. You making it more likely they will encounter a deadly disease when doing so is not good. You're stumbling around drunk with a loaded gun in a public place, then blaming people for exposing themselves to you for having made their choice. FREEEEEDOOOOOOM!

While I'm sure lots of people can put off their eye exams, there's a good argument that at least for some people, eye examination is more urgent, so it's worth keeping access open to your service as safely as possible. You very well might be an essential worker. You shouldn't have to have your lungs risked because someone really wants a professional haircut and can't wait. And I know you think, "that's my choice" but it isn't everyone's choice to accept that kind of risk. "Your freedom ends at my nose" logic includes viral shedding.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

It's weird how Ajax keeps getting his questions answered, but he refuses to have a conversation in good faith and answer our questions. Additionally, his questions have a sort of doggedly retarded quality to them, where they're both asked and stated at the same time belying willful stupidity rather than cleverness. It's akin to subgenius doing his drive-by posting, where he'll skim something quickly, fart out a stupidity, and then move on without ever having advanced his thinking.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

I took a look at some of the early posts in this thread to see the evolution of thought. For the most part, posters here were sharp about what's going on given the information at the time. Mistakes, Res Ipsa downplaying the likelihood of asymptomatic spread for instance, generally reflect the quality of available information. The biggest regrettable idea I get from those comments is that instead of saying only sick people should wear masks, it should've been people should be encouraged to wear masks by default just in case they're sick.

The two worst early takes I could find are Dr. Exiled with:

[quote]There is this article that says the beginning of the end might be here for the coronavirus:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/02/coronaupdate.html

Hopefully the data that backs up the article isn't being massaged somehow.[/quote]

and Honor with:

[quote]Meanwhile, the millions of cases of flu and 10's of thousands of deaths from it this year are meh.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm

Perspective. Yeah we don't know much about coronavirus but people get better after contracting it. Fatality rate is around 2% which is quite a bit higher than the flu but no where near the scary diseases like ebola or even SARS. Its unknown qualities and associated caution are necessary and drawing intense attention but it's a small blip compared to the deadly illnesses that are routine among us.[/quote]

Interestingly, both very much reflect the type of sources they prefer at the time: Dr. Exiled with his John Bircher descended far right conspiracist contrarianism and Honor with very serious person punditry that was indulging in more-rational-than-thou don't panic messaging that downplayed the threat. Accordingly, you'd expect Dr. Exiled to [i]still[/i] be flirting with kooksville and Honor to accept that was a regrettable underreaction.

The right-wing troll posters were staying away from the thread during that time.

[_Jersey Girl]

ajax18 you are a doctor are you not? Do you naïvely think that the people staying at home have been staying at home for the past 8 weeks? Do you think they haven't had to go out to pick up groceries, fill RX's, go to an urgent care appointment? Do you think no one has visited them to deliver groceries? They aren't getting packages? They aren't going to the mailbox to pick up mail?

You'll probably say, well, so long as everyone else they come in contact with has been wearing a mask and social distancing, there shouldn't be a problem.

And yet, there is.

Over the past 8 weeks...I've observed these things.

Walmart inside: About 3 weeks ago after a grocery pick up I decided to go inside the store and see what it looked like. This was before the orders were starting to be eased up. I went inside double masked. I was in there for less than 10 minutes. I observed social distancing in practice for the most part, I also observed that many customers weren't wearing masks.

Walmart grocery pick up this past week: I arrived double masked...in my car. The new rules say this is no contact pick up, don't roll your windows down. The older gentleman who approached my car needed to check that I was indeed, me. I had to roll down my window a bit and then popped the back from inside the car so he could load. He was wearing a mask and that would've been great except for the fact that his nose wasn't covered. Go figure. I drove by the front of the store (this is after the orders were eased up) and observed several individuals and whole families going inside the store unmasked.

Walmart Pharmacy pick up same day: Line of cars waiting to use the pick up system. Everyone and their dog touches the key pad including the person you are immediately following. Fortunately, I've got the process down to a fine art.

Little local store: I had to go inside a little mom/pop type store here in my own town last week. I walked in double masked. They had hand sanitizer on the counter. The cashier (who was obviously stressed to the max) was bitching about people not wearing their masks in compliance with the sign the owner posted outside the store because when she reminded them they were giving her crap for it. She wasn't wearing a mask. While I was there I sanitized my card and hands before I left. On the way out, 3 customers arrived. Two were masked, one was not.

So that is just my experience. People have to get food/RX's either inside the stores, picked up in the parking lots or delivered to their homes. If my Walmart delivered to my area (no one delivers here except the local pizza place) I would still have to contend with ungloved people delivering food to my front deck because my guess is they are ungloved just like the grocery pick up folks are.

And then you've got folks who are staying at home because they are high risk who live with folks who are going out.

You can't figure that out? Epidemiology wasn't part of your course work? It was mine and I'm a freaking preschool teacher/administrator.

You are embarrassing yourself here.

[_Lemmie]

...I still haven't met someone with Covid but I've met plenty of people unemployed and ruined economically because of it

I apologize in advance for the crudeness of my following example, but Ajax’s lack of logic here is beyond irritatating. I apologize for going back to this if someone already covered it, but anyway...

The last time anecdotal evidence like Ajax’s above meant anything was when there were 20 humans on the planet in two tribes, and all ten of the people In one tribe were starving and didn’t have enough food, and a person from the other tribe told them that eating food would cause a monkey to emerge from one’s butt. (Apologies to Jim Carrey’s portrayal of the powers of god.)

In that case, and that case ALONE, the ten humans would be justified in continuing to search for food to eat on the basis of their own anecdotal evidence. Ajax’s argument meets no such conditions.

[_Jersey Girl]

Hey, a story close to Jersey Girl:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/color ... b-enus-280

This is a follow-up from the viral story on their posting they had not that long ago.

Not a mask to be seen. No meaningful distancing.

Yep. This is why my butt is sitting out here in the sticks. Someone is going to end up getting shot over these kinds of conflicts. Wait for it. I can socially distance like a boss right where I am.

[_ajax18]

This was a good summary of how I feel about this. I can't stay unemployed for the next couple years. Thankfully that part is hopefully over for me. And Jersey Girl good luck getting a job with amazon or the grocery store. Who wants to hire someone that isn't going to be there for more than a month or so? Have you tried finding a job recently?

“There are those wanting to reopen yet they’re being classified as selfish. There are those that rely on all kinds of people to supply them while they cower in fear at home. Isn’t that being selfish too?
You expect your garbage to be picked up, you expect the grocery store to be open so you can get milk, you expect truck drivers to supply the stores, you expect farmers, meatpackers, fruit and vegetable pickers all to keep food in that grocery store.
You expect Amazon to still ship all the things you’re ordering while you sit at home shopping. You expect the delivery driver to leave it on your doorstep. You expect your phone to work, your power to stay on, and your mail to show up rain, sleet, or shine. And most important, you expect the doctors and nurses to be there if you need them although many of them across the country have been furloughed because their units and services have been shut down while the entire system focuses only on COVID19.
The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow people to shelter in place.
I know there are some of you that are screaming mad about what I just said but stop and really think about what is allowing you to stay safe in your home.
I truly believe that with some common sense on my part, I could easily go back to life as it was. I want to go to restaurants, I want to shop at the little store just up the road.
And yes, I could catch COVID-19. I could also catch the flu or a cold. I could get run over by a bus. I could get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday. If you choose to stay home, that is absolutely your choice. And please don’t start screaming at me about how I’ll just spread it. Why are you worried? You won’t get it because you’re staying in your home. Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?
Our economy can’t withstand much more of this. If our economy collapses, so will the rest of the world’s. If that happens, you will see the rise of tyrants.
I absolutely don’t want people to die...from COVID or anything else. I want people to live.
But sheltering in place is not living.

[_EAllusion]

[quote]The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours.[/quote]

The idea is to reduce the amount of risk they face by keeping infectious spread to a minimum?

Where is it riskier for grocery store clerks?

A) New Zealand or B) America?

People stay away from public gatherings and reduce interactions because this reduces the rate of transmission of a deadly disease. Because some activities requiring social interaction are necessary to keep society functioning, those people continue on. Ideally that's done as safely as possible, but here in America that's proving to be a mixed bag. Behaving in such a way that they face more ambient risk of disease because you can't be bothered to think about how your actions affect others is what is selfish. Staying away when you can doesn't make them take on more risk. It makes them take on less.

In other contexts, you point to your renewed faith making you a better person and those lacking it facing a life of despair and amorality. But here you are, proudly proclaiming yourself to be a selfish, moral black hole of a human being.

[quote]
I truly believe that with some common sense on my part, I could easily go back to life as it was. I want to go to restaurants, I want to shop at the little store just up the road.[/quote]

See, this even isn't about government intervention at this point. You just want to have to stop worrying about this whole protecting others business as it is interfering with a life you want to return to ASAP.

[quote]And yes, I could catch COVID-19. I could also catch the flu or a cold. I could get run over by a bus. I could get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday.[/quote]Welp. Might as well start freebasing cocaine while playing Russian roulette. Because you could be hit by lightning anyway.

Not all risks are equal Ajax. Even for yourself. But there are other people. You are not the only person who exists.

[quote]Why are you worried? You won’t get it because you’re staying in your home. [/quote]Most people aren't staying home all the time. They are minimizing their trips to risky areas. There's a big difference. People need to get food, and not everyone can manage this without going somewhere to get it.

[quote]Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?[/quote]Fortunately, COVID-like risk doesn't happen all that often.