Fauci is either a liar or a fraud

[_ajax18]

So going to work and feeding your family isn't important enough in fighting Covid spread but protesting racism is? Ok got it

[_Some Schmo]

So going to work and feeding your family isn't important enough in fighting Covid spread but protesting racism is? Ok got it

I'm not keen on the proximity of people in the protests either, but I certainly understand their righteous anger. You'd have to be a racist not to understand.

There may even be people who consider this a war for justice and democracy, and are willing to fight despite the danger, because they are true patriots. People like Trump will never understand that kind of sacrifice, because they prefer not to get captured and make up bone spur excuses.

[_Themis]

If you suspect the protests will cause a Covid resurgence, why mot stop them. Most of the sacrifice we endured by forfeiting our jobs for six week will be for nothing.

I don't know how much it will affect covid spread, but how would you stop people from protesting peacefully ajax?

[_honorentheos]

Ajax, here's what Fauci had actually said as recently as Friday on the fear the virus will surge due to protest spread. It's from Fox so you can read it:

I've read it and according to this it would appear Fauci thinks the protests will set us back against Covid. How do you justify the spread of Covid through nationwide urban protests in Covid hotspots honorentheos?

I don't think one "justifies the spread". It's a bad situation on top of another bad situation.

Suppose two-three years ago when Colin Kaepernick was kneeling
in protest the response was to listen and work to improve or demilitarize the police? Or pursue real reform when we weren't in crisis?

Suppose we had maintained a pandemic response team that had been prepared with PPE, had hospital readiness plans, and the ability to perform contact tracing and testing when COVID first landed on our shores after months of warning it was a threat? Would shutdowns have been as necessary or widespread?

Suppose we had not cut taxes to primarily feed stock buy backs that inflated stock prices but underfunded the government leading to ballooning deficits before we needed to act in an emergency? Or if we had a way of taking care of struggling individuals and small businesses that had been thought through in advance and could have been implemented rather than our having spent the last decade fighting over deficits that turned Congress into a broken mess that turned out to have been a lie anyway?

Suppose we prioritized seeing government govern rather than put on disgusting political theater on cable news day in day out like a perpetual sporting event with rabid, hateful fan bases and intent to make more of them out if everyone instead of citizens?

I don't know, Ajax. The protests are for an important cause. People die unnecessarily at the hands of government because of what they look like. That's a thing that needs changed. People die unnecessarily due to inaction or ignorance on the part of government because government didn't do its job dealing with a public health crisis. That's a thing that needs to change.

To use an analogy, we as a nation are like a middle aged guy who has spent a decade or more eating poorly and not being active. We justify it because we've been overworked and had other priorities. But suddenly a crisis hit and we are forced to run for our lives or die...and all those days of not running and eating greasy fast food caught up with us.

It's nice to be capable. But we let ourselves go. It's caught up with us on multiple fronts and each is a different manifestation of a few big problems in our nation. Inequality in multiple forms is probably the biggest one, in my opinion. It's a primary driver of much of our societal disfunction.

[Guest]

. . .From what I hear, Sweden handled this better. It's starting to look to me like the shutdown was a massive waste.

As you are chronically prone to do, you have again demonstrated unequivocally that you don't understand what you're talking about. Refer again to https://coronavirus.smartnews.com/us/?e ... omApp=true:

Let's compare Sweden's response and results with the other Scandinavian countries: As of 6/8/2020:

Sweden, which did not initiate lockdown procedures or social distancing had a total of 45,133 confirmed cases and 4,694 deaths.

Denmark had a total of confirmed 12,162 cases, 593 deaths and 10,992 recoveries, leaving only 577 confirmed still active cases.

Norway had a total of confirmed 8,561 cases, 239 deaths and 8,138 recoveries, leaving only 184 confirmed still active cases.

Finland had a total of confirmed 7,001 cases, 323 deaths and 5,800 recoveries, leaving only 878 confirmed still active cases.

Iceland had a total of 1,807 confirmed cases, 10 deaths and 1,794 recoveries, leaving only 3 still active cases left.

There is no way one can reasonably argue that Sweden handled it better. Even the Swedish government agrees with that, and admits to having made a serious mistake.

Then we have the example of New Zealand, which is now apparently entirely free of coronavirus infections, due to early mitigation via shutdowns and social distancing.

You probably haven't dared look at my challenge thread showing how disastrously worse the Trump administration has handled the pandemic than most of the rest of the world, especially South Korea, which also from the beginning initiated shutdowns and social distancing, while Trump was still trying to pretend that the pandemic was nothing but a Democratic hoax that would soon blow over. I think you know full well that there is no credible or honest way to deny that no other country's response to this pandemic was worse than how the Trump administration handled it! This is one argument that even you know you have no chance of winning!

[_Gunnar]

I don't think one "justifies the spread". It's a bad situation on top of another bad situation.

Suppose two-three years ago when Colin Kaepernick was kneeling
in protest the response was to listen and work to improve or demilitarize the police? Or pursue real reform when we weren't in crisis?

Suppose we had maintained a pandemic response team that had been prepared with PPE, had hospital readiness plans, and the ability to perform contact tracing and testing when COVID first landed on our shores after months of warning it was a threat? Would shutdowns have been as necessary or widespread?

Suppose we had not cut taxes to primarily feed stock buy backs that inflated stock prices but underfunded the government leading to ballooning deficits before we needed to act in an emergency? Or if we had a way of taking care of struggling individuals and small businesses that had been thought through in advance and could have been implemented rather than our having spent the last decade fighting over deficits that turned Congress into a broken mess that turned out to have been a lie anyway?

Suppose we prioritized seeing government govern rather than put on disgusting political theater on cable news day in day out like a perpetual sporting event with rabid, hateful fan bases and intent to make more of them out if everyone instead of citizens?

I don't know, Ajax. The protests are for an important cause. People die unnecessarily at the hands of government because of what they look like. That's a thing that needs changed. People die unnecessarily due to inaction or ignorance on the part of government because government didn't do its job dealing with a public health crisis. That's a thing that needs to change.

To use an analogy, we as a nation are like a middle aged guy who has spent a decade or more eating poorly and not being active. We justify it because we've been overworked and had other priorities. But suddenly a crisis hit and we are forced to run for our lives or die...and all those days of not running and eating greasy fast food caught up with us.

It's nice to be capable. But we let ourselves go. It's caught up with us on multiple fronts and each is a different manifestation of a few big problems in our nation. Inequality in multiple forms is probably the biggest one, in my opinion. It's a primary driver of much of our societal disfunction.

Awesomely said as usual, for you! I agree that Trump is far from entirely to blame for the enormous problems and dysfunction that currently beset our nation, but I don't think any truly rational, knowledgeable and honest individuals can any longer honestly deny that Trump is both purposely exacerbating them and working mightily to figure out how to bend them to his own selfish, maximum advantage.

[_ajax18]

[quot]I don't know, Ajax. The protests are for an important cause..[/quote]

I think going to work is a very important cause. Kids going to school is an important cause. For me and I know I'm in the minority on this board, going to church is a very important cause. You've taken all that away it without even permitting a second thought (i.e. Michigan protest) from us and made whatever good it did useless because you're not willing to stop the an angry mod from going out and protesting. If this virus is anything like what the exerts say, all these protesters are violent protesters because they're ignoring social distancing guidelines and accelerating the spread of Covid. They're travelling around the country to Covid hotspots and back. Is this protest more important to you than kids going to school and their parents going to work? Watching the media pivot from the blood on the hands of those that go back to work early to protests are more important than flattening the curve leaves me wondering what to believe. Was Covid an overreaction exacerbated by the media to help bring down the Trump economy. Or will these protests really kill a couple million more Americans just as the expert models predict, but in the minds of the left this is a small price to pay until we get the police abolished and rebuilt the way we want?

[_honorentheos]

Ajax, all those questions you asked? They should be directed at the people who failed to take this seriously and prepare.

Why don't you ask the leadership why their attempts to act like everything was great trumped taking the virus seriously and preparing? Why protecting people's jobs took a back seat to politics? Why we allowed the deficit to balloon up doing the good time so we were in a worse position to act when the time came to need to act? Why there was no plan for this?

The protests are going to increase the spread of COVID. And people will probably pay a price for that. There's no way to sugar coat that. And yeah, a second wave could cause more economic damage on too of what's already been done.

But the reality is also that people being killed by agents of government for their skin color is...well, state sanctioned murder. I don't know why it's hard to see that this issue sits just as heavily on the scale. Everything going on - all of it - is a hill that's come due. You're complaining about your half of the bill. The we are all being screwed by this thing, Ajax. All of reasons the protestors are protesting are also part of this bill and frankly it all is hitting hard. Poor minorities are getting more than a share of it frankly.

You don't like when bills like this come due and we are having to dig deep to settle them? Stop being inclined to push off the bill onto others at the table all the time.

[_Chap]

But the reality is also that people being killed by agents of government for their skin color is...well, state sanctioned murder. I don't know why it's hard to see that this issue sits just as heavily on the scale. Everything going on - all of it - is a hill that's come due. You're complaining about your half of the bill.

Mr Floyd was put to death by slow asphyxiation by a police officer on camera, while members of the watching crowd pointed out to the officer what he was doing, and Mr Floyd stated repeatedly that he could not breathe, until he died and became silent. Other police officers clearly saw that slow murder was being committed, but made no effort to question or impede the officer's actions.

And this is not the first time since black people were theoretically given full civil rights that similar things have happened to black people. And it's mostly black people it happens to.

When black people begin to shout and rage in response to yet another addition to this long, long history of unpunished extra-judicial executions, It is not appropriate to say "It's very inconvenient to register your complaint at the moment. Could you come back later, please? Thank you for your time".

[_Some Schmo]

Just how thoughtless do you have to be to still think COVID is a hoax? I mean... you've got to be looking for a reason to whine like a baby to claim this nonsense.

Yes, the entire world's media is in on a plot to make Trump look bad... because they all realize it takes a global effort to tarnish his sterling reputation.

F*u*c*king brain dead.