I don’t have any particular opinions. I believe it uses more traditional approaches to reform (lobbying, etc.) as opposed to the direct action tactics of BLM. That likely makes it less visible. Their six “game changers” are goals I think would be non-controversial to most Americans. I have no idea how influential or effective the organization is today.
I kind of think of it as like the DNC with BLM being like the Sanders revolution. But I could be way off base.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
I don't think you can really argue against a slogan that emerges organically and then sticks. We may not think it's the most effective slogan, but it's literally been determined by an implicit vote. It's being widely used.
Sure it could have unintended consequences, the very concerns we've mentioned in this thread, but what's the solution?
Hey organic protest movements all over the country! People... could we workshop that slogan a bit?
We should try to let the emotional steam of the slogan drive us toward the actual policy changes that make practical sense, even if those changes can't be specifically mapped to the slogan itself.
My view is it only sticks if not challenged. I think it needs challenged because it could end up unwinding the potential for good. Now, that argument could end up being wrong or irrelevant. But I'm not for abandoning the argument because the slogan has gained traction. Some of that traction is due to it being problematic.
I argued against the worst interpretation of "Believe all women" in favor of it being understood to mean the historic tendency to dismiss claims or assign culpability to the woman making them was systemic evil that needed addressed. But now I think the slogan itself was the problem precisely because there were so many contradictory ways to interpret it that it became weaponized and part of a problem undermining the cause it was supposed to be helping. So part of my position on this comes from watching how that played out.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
The real problem, honor, is that words come loaded with different meanings for different people, so there is no such thing as a perfect slogan. What may seem perfect to you will find contention from someone, probably lots of someones.
But again, even if you come up with the perfect slogan, how do you get the mob to adopt it? I don't think too many protesters are considering long-term strategy right now. It's not like the protests have concentrated leadership. We're talking about large swathes of the electorate just feeling an emotional impetus to get out and march for justice. That's all it's about right now.
I agree with you that it would be a bummer if this movement loses traction over messaging, but I'm not sure what could actually be done about it. With whom in particular do you discuss the slogan? I suppose I could make up a sign that says Slash Police Budget! and hope that it catches on, but I believe that's the best anyone can do.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
I heard an interview yesterday on NPR discussing Joe Biden's resistance to "Defunding the Police". The person interviewed was describing Biden as not supporting African Americans if he didn't support "Defunding the Police".
I think this slogan threatens a Biden victory and helps Trump towards winning a second term if that keeps happening.
So...maybe it's something to care about a bit more?
In my hometown, the police budget takes more than 50% of the city budget - looking at redirecting resources to social services in a way that would make everyone feel safer and be more effective. I mean, really what people in the streets are calling for - and this is, you know, people across the country - is to break this cycle. And Joe Biden, his campaign, has got to take that seriously if he's going to be on the right side of history...
MARTIN: You don't think they are? You don't think that if you set the word aside - defunding the police - you don't think, on the substance of it, that he agrees?
ALLISON: You know, if he says - if he dismisses the phrase - nope, we're not going to defund the police - it's not admitting that the police departments in a lot of - in most municipalities are receiving, you know, really, a lion's share of resources with the idea that putting more money into police is going to make people feel safer. But the reality is, and what the protests are about, is that that's a set of policy priorities and budget priorities that has led to the current moment that, really, a serious consideration about where money is spent, inviting a public conversation that, you know, we need to rethink policing.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
I heard an interview yesterday on NPR discussing Joe Biden's resistance to "Defunding the Police". The person interviewed was describing Biden as not supporting African Americans if he didn't support "Defunding the Police".
I think this slogan threatens a Biden victory and helps Trump towards winning a second term if that keeps happening.
So...maybe it's something to care about a bit more?
If Biden is resistant to Defund the Police, that is less extreme than Trump's Law & Order crap. On this issue, the choice is a wash. Trump can't credibly accuse Democrats of wanting to get rid of police if Biden is explicitly saying he doesn't want to get rid of police.
Are African Americans going to hear Biden and think, well, Trump's better on this issue? I highly doubt it.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
There's a culture on the left and a belief among many poor and minorities that it doesn't matter who is on charge. Voting is a waste of time. Chappelle used to make that a punch line all the time.
I wouldn't underestimate the potential concern if the.mesaage becomes "us against the system" rather than believing there is opportunity to change the system through participation. I wouldn't assume that a message that draws a hard provocative line that isn't acceptable to a lot of people avoids becomes one more way for the left to self destruct because Trump is so bad.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
I wouldn't underestimate the potential concern if the.mesaage becomes "us against the system" rather than believing there is opportunity to change the system through participation. I wouldn't assume that a message that draws a hard provocative line that isn't acceptable to a lot of people avoids becomes one more way for the left to self destruct because Trump is so bad.
Hey, what can you say about voter apathy?
Thing is, I'm hearing a lot of African Americans express sentiment that this does feel different primarily because of how many white people are joining them in the streets. They are expressing more optimism than usual. I think they're pragmatic enough to seize this opportunity.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
I don’t have any particular opinions. I believe it uses more traditional approaches to reform (lobbying, etc.) as opposed to the direct action tactics of BLM. That likely makes it less visible. Their six “game changers” are goals I think would be non-controversial to most Americans. I have no idea how influential or effective the organization is today.
I kind of think of it as like the DNC with BLM being like the Sanders revolution. But I could be way off base.
I was thinking that the NAACP might be more uh...traditional...in it's approaches. Thanks for the feed back.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
There's a culture on the left and a belief among many poor and minorities that it doesn't matter who is on charge. Voting is a waste of time. Chappelle used to make that a punch line all the time.
I wouldn't underestimate the potential concern if the.mesaage becomes "us against the system" rather than believing there is opportunity to change the system through participation. I wouldn't assume that a message that draws a hard provocative line that isn't acceptable to a lot of people avoids becomes one more way for the left to self destruct because Trump is so bad.
I think the left stumbles for two main reasons. The first is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. The second is the timidity of centrists. You want more people to vote and reform within the system? Given them a goddam reason to support the system. The left-center is so scared that Trump will win it is afraid to breathe. It wrings its hands over every action, every slogan, every ad, every speech, every comma in every sentence of every bill. It gets so wrapped up in arguing over the right words to use in a slogan that it forgets to do anything.
Learn from Trump. Not his lying or his white nationalism. Learn from his boldness. "Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it." Did proposing bold action cost him the election? Hell no. It won him the election. So why is the center-left so damn timid on race? If you had to pick the single biggest impact that the democratic party had on black folks in the last 30 years, what would you pick? I'd maybe pick throwing so many of their assess in prison for minor drug crimes. The democratic party has treated racial minorities like the republican party treated evangelicals for many years: make them enough promises to get them on board and then do little to nothing for them. Until the evangelicals put their foot down and made it clear their vote had to be earned. And they were rewarded with a lock on the judiciary that will outlive me.
Every bold initiative from black folks is greeted like this:
You don't want Trump to be re-elected? Give disaffected voters something to vote for. Don't be the guys in the meme.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
