Did this really just happen?

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_Chap
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Chap »

EAllusion wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:24 pm
https://Twitter.com/TheWholeStory6/stat ... 5800793088

Lol. Who could've seen that coming except people familiar with the last 300 years or so of history? It's only their hilarious insignificance that is likely preventing a reign of terror from happening in, like, a couple of weeks.

(The left-wingers attempting to set up an autonomous zone in Seattle are forming crude, factional government-like organization. This includes self-declared police force. That police force is then proceeding to violate rights like our actual police force.)
This is why it is a very important thing for the government of a democratic state to set up a national police service that is able to police the overwhelming majority of the population by consent with minimum use of force, and does not give major parts of that population cause to regard them with hostility and fear, to which the police then react by adopting an even more heavily armed and coercive approach..

Because if the government fails to construct a consent-based police service, then on those rare occasions where the police are forced to withdraw from controlling a part of the population, that population is unlikely to simply heave a sigh of relief and get on with their lives without coercion. Instead, self-chosen groups will simply fill the gap by supplying the kind of armed coercive control that they have learned to see as normal.

I doubt whether we have an accurate view of what is happening in the 'autonomous zone', but if new forms of armed coercion are replacing the police, it would not be surprising.

And by the way, I don't think this sudden complete police pull-out and its consequences (whatever they may be) has any relevance to the desirability of the planned and progressively implemented redirection of current bloated police budgets to more fruitful means of crime reduction. Indeed, I wonder whether the whole point of the irresponsibly sudden police withdrawal may not have been to say to a disaffected population "See? The alternative to heavily coercive policing is even worse. More money, please."
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_honorentheos
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _honorentheos »

Chap wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:57 pm
I wonder whether the whole point of the irresponsibly sudden police withdrawal may not have been to say to a disaffected population "See? The alternative to heavily coercive policing is even worse. More money, please."
No. It was to disengage from a location where tensions had been rapidly escalating including use of tear gas, a shooting, etc. It was a responsible move where contact between protestors and police was making things worse.

Contrary to how it seems portrayed on Twitter, the City is still providing services such as the fire department and 911 to residents inside the zone.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Well, at least the CHAZ has law enforcement!

https://Twitter.com/obvious_Anon/status ... 1435060225

Residents are having to show their IDs to get into their own homes. Sounds real familiar, this CHAZ. Historical almost. Also, businesses are being extorted now.

- Doc
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Uh oh. Looks like Ajax18 is going to get his race war!

https://ibb.co/8djf8SY

They’re comin’ for ya, Ajax.

- Doc
_Chap
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Chap »

honorentheos wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:37 pm
Chap wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:57 pm
I wonder whether the whole point of the irresponsibly sudden police withdrawal may not have been to say to a disaffected population "See? The alternative to heavily coercive policing is even worse. More money, please."
No. It was to disengage from a location where tensions had been rapidly escalating including use of tear gas, a shooting, etc. It was a responsible move where contact between protestors and police was making things worse.
A well-run police service, with its huge advantages of legal legitimacy, equipment, communications and trained personnel should not reach a point in its relations to a population where it feels obliged to leave a significant area of a major city unpoliced for days on end in order to avoid civil disorder. The fact that the police felt they had no alternative to this withdrawal suggests a massive long-term failure on their part.
honorentheos wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:37 pm
Contrary to how it seems portrayed on Twitter, the City is still providing services such as the fire department and 911 to residents inside the zone.
Yup, I'm sure that the Twitter panic is, as usual, in part exaggerated. There is no news value in 'nothing much happening here'. But if I dial 911 and say I need the police to deal with armed men entering my shop and demanding money, what are they currently offering by way of service, I wonder?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_honorentheos
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _honorentheos »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:13 pm
Uh oh. Looks like Ajax18 is going to get his race war!

https://ibb.co/8djf8SY

They’re comin’ for ya, Ajax.

- Doc
Dude. Elevating individual tweets to newsworthy status representative of broader "facts" is irresponsible. Maybe it's all part of the sport of posting here but why?
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Why not? News, no matter how it comes to bear, is worth reading about. If there are people setting up CHAZ-like situations (I think the Leftists have taken over a hotel in Minneapolis), a few black people are agitating for a race war, so on and so forth why wouldn't you want to know? Having a grass roots take on the ground makes sense if something goes tits up later. It's all a result of what happened to George Floyd, is organic, and is something to take into account as we move forward as a country.

- Doc
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

NSFW 4Chan link:

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/262 ... firmed-100

Lol. The 4channers are seething because the CotJoS apologized for being at Trump's photoshoot. Speaking of agitating for civil war, if you dare read the linked thread, you'll see alt-righters are consistent about a desired fascist state and civil war.

Bananas.

- Doc
_honorentheos
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Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _honorentheos »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:42 pm
Why not? News, no matter how it comes to bear, is worth reading about. If there are people setting up CHAZ-like situations (I think the Leftists have taken over a hotel in Minneapolis), a few black people are agitating for a race war, so on and so forth why wouldn't you want to know? Having a grass roots take on the ground makes sense if something goes tits up later. It's all a result of what happened to George Floyd, is organic, and is something to take into account as we move forward as a country.

- Doc
I don't think a single tweet is news. Twitter isn't journalism. It's a periscope into the thoughts and experiences of individuals that serves some purpose and exposes stories in almost real time. But it shouldn't be treated as news. One rando person saying, "Bring guns to defend the CHAZ!", is just that. Journalism, done properly, contextualizes that information.

It's one of the problems with Twitter as a source. Someone focused on a particular segment of Twitter can easily come away with a narrow, misrepresented view of events that seem valid because it's being fed to the world in a raw format but it's still just a narrowly compressed perspective of what's going on. Added to the sum, it provides valuable information that, collectively, help cut through the fog of what's going on. Consumed narrowly, raw and without context? That's putting oneself into the fog.

What's critical mass for a real race war to be a legit possibilty? 10 people tweeting? 100 people tweeting? Probably depends on who they are and a lot of other factors besides that. One person tweeting named Donald Trump that it's time to grab the guns and defend White Heritage is critical mass. One hillbilly in Kentucky? Not news.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Did this really just happen?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

It’s zeitgeist.

- Doc
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