End of USA republic imminent?

[_honorentheos]

But why are you concerned about a company changing a brand name because it has connections to imagery and social organization that perpetuates them with ties to legitimate racial mistreatment?

My sense of that isn't that the actual renaming has genuine offensive qualities for you. It's that it happened.

So why? Why the reaction to that particular change?

[_honorentheos]

I think it's important to step back and listen. What Weinstein described was a group unwilling to listen to his point of view that instead asserted the superiority of the changes they wished to see. Maybe they had good points, maybe they would have reconsidered and found a better, middle way had they listened. I don't know.

I believe it's critical to stop and hear the reasons people have the opinions they do before assuming it's bad. Resistance to change, as you recall, is the game of king of the mountain. It's the force ensuring the system stays broken and works for fewer and fewer people. Change for changes sake isn't inherently good, though. Working together towards a better way of doing things requires give and take, exchanging perspectives, seeking to understand.

[_RockSlider]

I made an assumption, perhaps in error that some companies have preemptively made changes in fear of being labeled a racist organization. Is Quaker Oats racist? If they were, because of an image of a black woman, are they not so after this change? If I have a lawn jockey in my front yard am I a racist? Well I sure better lose it anyway least my home is burnt to the ground because the finger of scorn is pointed my way.

Do we now put any images of black people on the same caution list as images of Allah for fear of death? Has Quaker Oats indirectly supported and empowered the mobs entitlement to burn down my house for the new hidden meaning of the lawn jockey in my yard (the people that live here are bigoted racists)?

[_EAllusion]

Unless Weinstein was literally lynched, this is a super poor choice of words in this context.

There is a McCarthyist-lite segement of the left, but the idea that they spell the imminent doom of the Republica is on the face of it ridiculous as they don't hold anything resembling the kind of influence necessary in broader liberaldom, much less the United States as a whole. Some lives can be made miserable by them, but on a national stage, it's just a source of occasional brickbat stories, not an existential threat. They ironically serve as a "whatabout?!" examples that much more serious threats to the values of liberal democracy on the right use as cover. Don't confuse the inordinate focus alt-lite types have on it with its actual import.

[_EAllusion]

I made an assumption, perhaps in error that some companies have preemptively made changes in fear of being labeled a racist organization. Is Quaker Oats racist? If they were, because of an image of a black woman, are they not so after this change?

Aunt Jemima is notoriously based on racist tropes involving sanguine black servitude. Whenever you see it, your reaction should be "Wow. That still exists?" The idea that some executives woke up in 2020 and were like "Wait a minute. Aunt Jemima might be problematic guys..." is hilarious, but they are engaging in a corporate branding response to the fact that such behavior is increasingly socially unacceptable. They probably held on as long as they did because of brand loyalty concerns that they rightly sense might not be the best call anymore.

If I have a lawn jockey in my front yard am I a racist?

Probably? You're certainly doing something super racist unless you've contextualized it as a monument to historical racism or something. Like, old-timey, "this is still happening ?" level racism. Do...do you have lawn jockey in your front yard Rock?

Well I sure better lose it anyway least my home is burnt to the ground because the finger of scorn is pointed my way.

This isn't overwrought or anything.

Do we now put any images of black people on the same caution list as images of Allah for fear of death? Has Quaker Oats indirectly supported and empowered the mobs entitlement to burn down my house for the new hidden meaning of the lawn jockey in my yard (the people that live here are bigoted racists)?

Uh, it's sure looking like you have a lawn jockey. This is veering off into a demonstration that even people who say or do overtly racist things don't imagine themselves to be doing anything racist territory.

The issue isn't depiction of images of black people. It's depiction of black people using tropes long connected to racist stereotypes. We're like one post away from you complaining that criticizing you for your blackface Halloween costume is the death of America.

[_RockSlider]

Unless Weinstein was literally lynched, this is a super poor choice of words in this context.

Oh yea, I forgot to add the word lynched to images of black people on that warning list to avoid being labeled a racist. Funny thing is I associate lynched to justice served to horse thieves in the 1800's. I actually considered this and purposely used the word wondering if someone would prove the point. Thanks.

[_RockSlider]

I think it's important to step back and listen. What Weinstein described was a group unwilling to listen to his point of view that instead asserted the superiority of the changes they wished to see. Maybe they had good points, maybe they would have reconsidered and found a better, middle way had they listened. I don't know.

I believe it's critical to stop and hear the reasons people have the opinions they do before assuming it's bad. Resistance to change, as you recall, is the game of king of the mountain. It's the force ensuring the system stays broken and works for fewer and fewer people. Change for changes sake isn't inherently good, though. Working together towards a better way of doing things requires give and take, exchanging perspectives, seeking to understand.

The King of the Mountain analogy is a very good one. Yes, we need to abandon this game.

[_EAllusion]

Oh yea, I forgot to add the word lynched to images of black people on that warning list to avoid being labeled a racist. Funny thing is I associate lynched to justice served to horse thieves in the 1800's. I actually considered this and purposely used the word wondering if someone would prove the point. Thanks.

You used a stupid word choice to provoke someone into calling you out for your stupid word choice? This isn't the pwning you imagine it to be.

It's real great that you don't think the word "lynching" doesn't have any racial overtones because you associate it with killing horse thieves. Real great. But that doesn't change the fact that no one was "lynched" and it seems in poor taste to say they were metaphorically when the specific subject is racial mistreatment. Then to follow it up with an apparent defensive post about having a lawn jockey seems as little on the crazy end.

The issue isn't "images of black people." That's a "did you suffer a brain injury?" level strawman.

[_RockSlider]

Aunt Jemima is notoriously based on racist tropes involving sanguine black servitude. Whenever you see it, your reaction should be "Wow. That still exists?" The idea that some executives woke up in 2020 and were like "Wait a minute. Aunt Jemima might be problematic guys..." is hilarious, but they are engaging in a corporate branding response to the fact that such behavior is increasingly socially unacceptable. They probably held on as long as they did because of brand loyalty concerns that they rightly sense might not be the best call anymore.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAI
What is it about this image that I should find offensive?

Probably? You're certainly doing something super racist unless you've contextualized it as a monument to historical racism or something. Like, old-timey, "this is still happening ?" level racism. Do...do you have lawn jockey in your front yard Rock?

This isn't overwrought or anything.

Perhaps you have not seen the private property being destroyed all over this country in the last few weeks over this black issue?

[Guest]

Uh, it's sure looking like you have a lawn jockey. This is veering off into a demonstration that even people who say or do o/quotevertly racist things don't imagine themselves to be doing anything racist territory.

EAllusion seems to have self identified as belonging to the "McCarthyist-lite segment of the left". It's made for great conversation.

honorentheos, thanks again for the time you have put in to provide me with the insights that I knew I could find from some from this site in things that I am not knowledgeable about.