Vietnam has zero coronavirus deaths

[_Chap]

n more than 20 years, I have never seen you even once elect to use a single word of profanity in your posts unless you were quoting another poster.

Well, that's just what he was doing. Gunnar was simply quoting the word in question from my post, on which he was commenting. And I was, as I'm sure you realised, referencing a term used in reference to non-WASP governed countries by the President of the United States, no less.

Remind me, what exactly makes a place count as a "sh--hole country"?

My best guess on that is the prevalence of xenophobic and racists sh--holes willing and eager to elect sh--hole leaders like Trump who are determined to characterize nations populated and governed by non-white majorities as sh--hole countries.

[_ajax18]

No, I was not convinced I was going to die. I probably had COVID, but there's no way to know, so I have to act as though I haven't.

Did it leave you disabled? How much worse was it for you than a bad flu?

[_EAllusion]

No, I was not convinced I was going to die. I probably had COVID, but there's no way to know, so I have to act as though I haven't.

Did it leave you disabled? How much worse was it for you than a bad flu?

Bad flu. Might have some lingering breathing issues that seem better and worse depending on the day which may or may not be a COVID after effect because I may or may not have had COVID.

Because I'm not a solipsist, I don't take my personal experience as everyone else's. Because I'm not selfish monster, I don't take my life as the only one that has value.

Here's a JAMA paper attempting to follow lingering symptoms after a bout with acute COVID-19 in Italy.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2768351

[_Gunnar]

Well, that's just what he was doing. Gunnar was simply quoting the word in question from my post, on which he was commenting. And I was, as I'm sure you realised, referencing a term used in reference to non-WASP governed countries by the President of the United States, no less.

Exactly! I have always admired and envied your keen analytical ability and eclectic depth of knowledge. I am a much better informed person than I would otherwise have been had I never encountered you. You and Jersey Girl are both very high on my list of favorite posters, and you both have the ability to see through the chaff and get to the heart of whatever is being discussed here, plus the ability to understand and honestly consider others' points of view. I wish I were fully deserving of the friendship and respect you both have shown me.

[_ajax18]

Because I'm not selfish monster, I don't take my life as the only one that has value.

Monster? I don't have the capability to be that. But if I had to choose between a 50% unemployment rate for the next three years or 1% of the population being lost due to everyone not being locked into quarantine you know what I'd choose. If that makes me a monster I'm in good company. How many young healthy men did Lincoln send to their death and dismemberment to ensure slavery was abolished in the southern states and keep the south from having their own country. I know you view Lincoln as a white supremacist now but at one time he and U.S. Grant were revered for this decision.

[_Gunnar]

Because I'm not selfish monster, I don't take my life as the only one that has value.

Monster? I don't have the capability to be that. But if I had to choose between a 50% unemployment rate for the next three years or 1% of the population being lost due to everyone not being locked into quarantine you know what I'd choose. If that makes me a monster I'm in good company. How many young healthy men did Lincoln send to their death and dismemberment to ensure slavery was abolished in the southern states and keep the south from having their own country. I know you view Lincoln as a white supremacist now but at one time he and U.S. Grant were revered for this decision.

What a profoundly obtuse and disingenuous, strawman argument. Did you even read this exchange and my answer to it?

https://Twitter.com/FirenzeMike/status/ ... Ho-sojAAAA

It's easy to mock the weird ass cult these people are in, but the more important takeaway is that if Trump modeled decent behavior like a decent leader much sooner, people who who are dead wouldn't be.

And if you had your way 40% of us would be living in poverty, unemployed, and no hopes of getting a job until a vaccine is invented, which may never happen.

No! That is demonstrably disproven by the numerous nations who by going that way have drastically flattened the curve and are now in recovery, and successfully and safely opening up their economies again and returning to near normalcy.

All EA was suggesting that we should have enacted and followed the same procedures successfully used by other nations (most spectacularly by Vietnam, as related in my OP) to flatten the curve and get control of the pandemic. And it took only a few months -- not three years as you claimed -- and literally tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths were avoided. Are you still going to deny being a monster?

You also claimed there are some things worse than death. I ask you again: is having to acknowledge truths and reality that conflict with what you would desperately rather believe one of those things?

[_EAllusion]

The countries that have better economic prospects right now are the ones that engaged in the policies you think are the road to economic devastation while the US continues to face very difficult economic circumstances as the pandemic continues to rage on and paralyze economic activity. It's not just a false choice you are presenting, but that you are actively pushing for the path that leaves people worse off and causes more medical suffering and death.

With COVID out of control, the countries that managed to get things in line did so by having a tight lockdown, tighter than what happened in the US at any point, for several weeks, then a regime for testing, tracing, and isolating cases to tamp down flare-ups with social buy-in for risk adverse behavior. This doesn't get anyone back to normal, but it gets them a lot closer to normal than now.

You refuse this because you think you are trading jobs for lives, but you are costing lives and jobs in the process. So while Americans suffer and die of disease so you can feel slightly better about the cult you are in, you can look on while others prosper under the advice you rejected.

[Guest]

You refuse this because you think you are trading jobs for lives, but you are costing lives and jobs in the process. So while Americans suffer and die of disease so you can feel slightly better about the cult you are in, you can look on while others prosper under the advice you rejected.

Exactly! And I ask ajax again: Do you still deny being a monster, and do you think that having to acknowledge reality and truths that conflict with what you desperately would rather believe is a fate worse than death?

[_ajax18]

You refuse this because you think you are trading jobs for lives, but you are costing lives and jobs in the process. So while Americans suffer and die of disease so you can feel slightly better about the cult you are in, you can look on while others prosper under the advice you rejected.

I'm not sure how we could have been locked down any tighter over that six week period I wasn't even allowed to go to work. It was even longer for Optometrists in New York and New Jersey. I'm not sure it did them much good.

I had a leftist patient come in today. He has a good heart so I obviously wasn't going to argue with him. That's not what he paid for and I'm always on the patient's side when I'm at work. He said he thought we were opened up too soon. If he thought that, why was he in my chair? I didn't force him to come in and get an exam. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he was for both our sakes. But it still doesn't quite add up.

[_Gunnar]

I'm not sure how we could have been locked down any tighter over that six week period I wasn't even allowed to go to work. It was even longer for Optometrists in New York and New Jersey. I'm not sure it did them much good.

I had a leftist patient come in today. He has a good heart so I obviously wasn't going to argue with him. That's not what he paid for and I'm always on the patient's side when I'm at work. He said he thought we were opened up too soon. If he thought that, why was he in my chair? I didn't force him to come in and get an exam. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he was for both our sakes. But it still doesn't quite add up.

I commend you for having compassion for your "leftist patient", and I truly am sympathetic for businessmen like you who suffered because of the lockdowns, including, of course, the optometrists in New York and New Jersey. But you have to admit that despite being the first initial hotspots for the pandemic, New York and New Jersey both succeeded spectacularly well in flattening the curve once they decided to implement those procedures, and are still doing spectacularly well compared to most of the rest of the country. I'm sure that even the optometrists in those two states would, for the most part, agree with that.